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I'll show the Rachel that guy is trying

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to lead you down the path of

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righteousness I'm gonna lead you down

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that's chronic from the Emperor's New

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Groove struggling with whether to do the

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right thing it's a topic we talked about

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with today's guest Himalayan yogi expert

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Steve Briggs Steve I think you're down

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with this but our culture we've lost

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that I mean again when I talk to people

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in religious studies they'd go the exact

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opposite of that they say of course

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there isn't a moral imperative of course

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there isn't a judgment between right and

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wrong

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I challenge whether or not that's true

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and saying scientifically you guys are

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men of logic men of reason men of

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science I think you are misinterpreting

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the data in a fundamental way well I can

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come back to that comment I made about

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my definition of evil in the very

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beginning that is the act of denying

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another person their right of freedom

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their free will stay with us for skeptic

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[Music]

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welcome to skeptic oh where we explore

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controversial science and spirituality

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with leading researchers thinkers and

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their critics I'm your host Alex Karras

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and today we welcome Steve Briggs back

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to skeptic Oh Steve is really a

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remarkable guy I hope you remember him

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from his last interview you can check

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that out he has a couple of books one

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that we're going to talk about today I

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just showed it on the screen the tale of

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the Himalayan Yogi's this is a book of

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fiction unlike his first book but we I

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wonder just as an introduction remind

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you that even though this is a book of

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fiction this is a book written by a guy

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who spent years and years in India

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working at a professional level but also

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working with Yogi's would regularly go

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on retreat with some very mystical kind

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of crazy Yogi's that we all imagine in

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the mountains and also working with

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people who were interested in meditation

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because Steve was a meditation teacher a

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transcendental meditation teacher in

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India so this is a fantastic opportunity

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to have him back on - I was just warning

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him to kind of drag him into this

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discussion I've been having about

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evil-lyn about these extended realms and

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about what we might learn about them and

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I was really reminded to recontact Steve

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by been a friend of mine who is an

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emergency room physician here in San

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Diego and kind of vouched for Steve

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because I said hey there's a guy you

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might want to talk to you're planning on

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going to India to do this kind of

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spiritual journey kind of thing even

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though Ben is a Mormon he likes to

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expand his spiritual horizons and he

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said hey he came back and he said Steve

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is the real deal and he connected me

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with some people over there this

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fantastic experience I'm not promoting

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Steve as like a tour guide or anything

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like that but he's he's the real deal he

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really knows a lot of stuff about what

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he's going to be talking today about in

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terms of Yogi's and their understanding

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of these extended realms and what we

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might learn about that so Steve welcome

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back thanks so much for joining me

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you Alex and anytime I can talk about

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India I mean it's a place I love and

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it's I consider my second home and I

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hope if if I ever have a chance I'd love

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to live there again I spent seven years

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there and it was the bet that they were

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the best years of my life but remind

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folks if you will about those seven

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years what you did experience and then

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as I alluded to how do those experiences

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connect with the book that these people

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folks might check out

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well those seven years I was teaching

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meditation as you as you mentioned and

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it was to the corporate people in India

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to fortune 100 people and they had

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factories all over the country and over

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the course of the time we were there

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when we taught thousands of people we

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taught him in virtually every state in

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the country south from North Himalayas

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everywhere and the big cities Bombay

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Calcutta Delhi and then when we were not

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doing of course we had a tendency to

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head off of the mountains because the

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Himalayas are really thought of as the

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wellspring of spirituality the East and

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maybe for the planet in general I

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couldn't say and when we get up there

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and we met some pretty cool people guys

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who Yogi's have been living in caves for

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20 years

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one guy been in silence for seven years

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and we were sharing those back and forth

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and as I met these people

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very unusual lifestyles and sometimes

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very austere spending the winter and

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12,000 feet but with a vow never to

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light a fire or cook food I got to know

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with handful of these people maybe eight

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ten twelve of them and over the years we

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kept going back and seeing them again

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and we became friends and they realized

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that we were serious because people come

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even Indians to go to a place like Ghana

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go through the source of the Ganges

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River they go there for two hours and

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leave and we go up there for three weeks

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and so it made an impression on them

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they shared a lot with me about their

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dinner experience about their lifestyle

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about what it was all about with them

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and their their experiences of higher

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states of consciousness and so I got to

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kind of see a little bit of the inside

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rather than just the long hair in the

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loincloth and I found these guys were

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fascinating human beings and a couple of

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my used as

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as prototypes effect if you will for

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some characters in the book to make the

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tale the Himalayan Yogi's so tell me a

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little bit more so you hike up there you

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see some yogi who's been sitting in a

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cave I remember the last time you told

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me he'd have like a newspaper from like

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five years ago yes last contact with the

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outside world but then what would you do

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you'd like camp nearby and you engage in

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your own meditation practice well there

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are places there that have been

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pilgrimage sites or they call me entre

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otros e kennedy or Sanskrit for

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pilgrimage that had been active for

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thousands of years and obviously in the

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years before buses and cars people would

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walk and it would take six months to get

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from the plains to these piranhas that's

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the beer pervaded kind of place and with

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cars we can drive right up to place like

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poetry and then from Gangotri it's

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another 15 kilometers to get to the

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actual source of the Ganges candy so

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some of these Yogi's were living at

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Congo to itself and some of them were

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living further up the river and so I met

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when you got the gun go G for example

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they had guest houses because thousands

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of people go to these places thousand

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Indians that come in on buses so they

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stayed for a couple hours maybe a couple

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days and then they leave and they go to

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the temple and they do poojas for their

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ancestors and that sort of thing but we

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kind of hung around got to know them and

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then we go up further where it was very

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austere where you eat a stay in a tent

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or a tea stall something I know or

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there's a couple of tiny tiny ashrams

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that were like one-room basically they

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still call them from they let you stay

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overnight and if you made a contribution

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great if you didn't make a chair so

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that's how we kind of got to be friend

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ease people and sometimes it was tricky

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because they didn't speak very maybe

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very little bit to no English and my

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hindi sketchy at best but sometimes they

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were very well educated one guy had been

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a professor of some Vedic branch of

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literature in Calcutta and his English

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was impeccable he translated brahma

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sutras into english so it just depended

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on

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but in every case is sort of a universal

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language in the spiritual realm where

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you can can make a connection with

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people if you are open and they're

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opened as well so it worked out quite

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well let's just it's just fascinating

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and it's interesting that last tidbit

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that you added there about a guy being a

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university professor becomes a

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renunciant and says hey this is the path

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that so many have followed I have to

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follow that path you don't have to live

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in a cave you can live in New York City

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and if you you can call yourself

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whatever you want a mystic follower of

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Buddha anything you like but even if

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you're doing the work and you've got the

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vision and you've got the path and where

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you're headed you're awake to whatever

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degree we're all on the path and we

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reached where all their own stage of the

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past so it's not like we're all moving

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exactly the same pace of doing exactly

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the same thing but we have a common goal

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so we're pretty much kind of brothers in

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that sense anyone who's on a spiritual

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path I embraced it to sink more power to

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you because we're in an age in the world

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where it's easy to go the other

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direction

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in fact society is kind of flowing one

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way and people who are trying to make

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progress spiritually are basically

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swimming upstream it can be a challenge

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the project that I'm really on right now

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when I want to pull you into is that I

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just think we have to do better in terms

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of bringing some of the best Western

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Reason logic science to trying to

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understand this extended consciousness

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realm that we're talking about and I

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think that's I think it's a worthy

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project especially when I just opposed

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contrasted with what we're presented I

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mean I talked to so many biblical

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scholars religious scholars it is so out

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to lunch so ridiculously disengaged with

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even consciousness even the

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understanding that we are more than this

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biological robots in a meaningless

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universe thing that I always harp on

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they're not even past that so they don't

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even have a chance they don't even have

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a nose in the tent to begin to

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understand this stuff and then on the

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other hand we have kind of

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religious cultish craziness that we can

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all see that demands that we adopt these

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just irrational belief systems as the

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only way of understanding this extended

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consciousness realm so I'm not supposing

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that you and I in this tiny little

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podcast can solve this question that

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people have been trying to understand

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for thousands of years but we sure as

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can do better than what's being

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done right now and I think it forces us

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to ask the question is why aren't we

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doing better why aren't we applying our

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best methods of logic and reason and and

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that I guess is also kind of a prelude

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to kind of pushing you a little bit

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because I know you're a very smart guy

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you're an MBA right am i right sighs so

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you're an MBA advanced degree successful

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in business you're not somebody who's

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thrown all reason out the window just

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because you had a spiritual experience

272
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you're still asking all the questions

273
00:11:14,350 --> 00:11:13,100
that we all ask so I thought this was

274
00:11:18,580 --> 00:11:14,360
really really kind of a great

275
00:11:20,770 --> 00:11:18,590
opportunity with your book which is so

276
00:11:22,150 --> 00:11:20,780
challenging I think in some ways because

277
00:11:23,770 --> 00:11:22,160
of some of the things that it says about

278
00:11:27,130 --> 00:11:23,780
the extended consciousness realms and

279
00:11:28,570 --> 00:11:27,140
Hell and demons and evil and things that

280
00:11:30,490 --> 00:11:28,580
might be happening and might be

281
00:11:32,620 --> 00:11:30,500
interacting in our world and you're

282
00:11:34,390 --> 00:11:32,630
talking about it in a very sober

283
00:11:37,180 --> 00:11:34,400
straightforward way as many have talked

284
00:11:39,550 --> 00:11:37,190
about before but that's the conversation

285
00:11:43,140 --> 00:11:39,560
that I thought it would really be fun to

286
00:11:46,420 --> 00:11:43,150
engage in let me say one thing about

287
00:11:48,550 --> 00:11:46,430
quantitative approach and there's been

288
00:11:50,860 --> 00:11:48,560
there's a guy named dr. Fred Travis and

289
00:11:53,110 --> 00:11:50,870
he's got this little portable neuro

290
00:11:56,110 --> 00:11:53,120
physiological apparatus that he that he

291
00:11:57,790 --> 00:11:56,120
hooks up to any meditator any person

292
00:11:59,710 --> 00:11:57,800
who's practicing something that's that

293
00:12:01,120 --> 00:11:59,720
they feel is extending their

294
00:12:03,070 --> 00:12:01,130
consciousness or expanding their

295
00:12:04,810 --> 00:12:03,080
consciousness and he looks at it in

296
00:12:06,130 --> 00:12:04,820
terms of all the different brain wave

297
00:12:08,860 --> 00:12:06,140
functions and all the different things

298
00:12:10,450 --> 00:12:08,870
that go on in the brain he's found some

299
00:12:14,350 --> 00:12:10,460
very fascinating things so there are

300
00:12:16,990 --> 00:12:14,360
some people doing some very good work to

301
00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:17,000
find out how the changes are actually

302
00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:20,090
manifesting into human brain so dr. Fred

303
00:12:24,940 --> 00:12:23,090
traps has done 25 years worth of work to

304
00:12:27,070 --> 00:12:24,950
turn in the sort of thing and I think

305
00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:27,080
he's come up with some nice things if I

306
00:12:30,560 --> 00:12:28,170
were a neuro

307
00:12:32,090 --> 00:12:30,570
scientists like he I could articulate it

308
00:12:34,550 --> 00:12:32,100
better but I just say that there are a

309
00:12:37,190 --> 00:12:34,560
few people that are starting to dig a

310
00:12:39,490 --> 00:12:37,200
little deeper that's almost like a level

311
00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:39,500
1 discussion to me and that is

312
00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:43,050
establishing that we can verify by the

313
00:12:47,449 --> 00:12:44,970
means that we have that we accept as

314
00:12:49,460 --> 00:12:47,459
being scientific that there is this

315
00:12:51,590 --> 00:12:49,470
extended realm and I think that's a

316
00:12:53,780 --> 00:12:51,600
necessary step because we have science

317
00:12:55,730 --> 00:12:53,790
that is really locked into this idea

318
00:12:58,340 --> 00:12:55,740
that that can't possibly be happening

319
00:13:00,050 --> 00:12:58,350
and it's all brain based so when we come

320
00:13:01,970 --> 00:13:00,060
back with like you're talking about this

321
00:13:03,949 --> 00:13:01,980
dr. Fred Travis or we have it from a

322
00:13:06,500 --> 00:13:03,959
number of different sources we have the

323
00:13:08,930 --> 00:13:06,510
guy in the UK David Nutt who does the

324
00:13:11,300 --> 00:13:08,940
psilocybin experiments and puts people

325
00:13:12,980 --> 00:13:11,310
under the fMRI and instead of their

326
00:13:15,259 --> 00:13:12,990
brain lighting up like a Christmas tree

327
00:13:17,689 --> 00:13:15,269
like we'd expect it goes the other

328
00:13:19,519 --> 00:13:17,699
direction in that it's suggesting that

329
00:13:21,710 --> 00:13:19,529
these people are having a direct contact

330
00:13:23,150 --> 00:13:21,720
a more direct contact with it with

331
00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:23,160
consciousness and that's what's causing

332
00:13:26,660 --> 00:13:25,170
their extended experience and of course

333
00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:26,670
we have the near-death experience

334
00:13:30,949 --> 00:13:28,370
science where these people are dead

335
00:13:32,269 --> 00:13:30,959
clinically dead by all the means we've

336
00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:32,279
ever measured that they're dead dead

337
00:13:36,829 --> 00:13:34,050
dead and yet they're having these

338
00:13:38,750 --> 00:13:36,839
extended experiences so my point really

339
00:13:40,250 --> 00:13:38,760
and this is I'm belaboring this but I

340
00:13:42,170 --> 00:13:40,260
really want to make sure their own

341
00:13:43,759 --> 00:13:42,180
understands the distinction I'm saying

342
00:13:46,310 --> 00:13:43,769
let's get past that yeah so the first

343
00:13:48,019 --> 00:13:46,320
point is just to say is it real we said

344
00:13:49,930 --> 00:13:48,029
okay it's real there is not only

345
00:13:52,790 --> 00:13:49,940
consciousness there's extended

346
00:13:55,910 --> 00:13:52,800
consciousness point level to always to

347
00:13:57,860 --> 00:13:55,920
me is to say well why is there all this

348
00:14:00,530 --> 00:13:57,870
I mean it seems kind of obvious

349
00:14:03,319 --> 00:14:00,540
the science it's been said from

350
00:14:05,509 --> 00:14:03,329
thousands of years cross-culture the

351
00:14:07,189 --> 00:14:05,519
position we have is ridiculous why do we

352
00:14:09,650 --> 00:14:07,199
keep getting nudged in this direction

353
00:14:11,449 --> 00:14:09,660
and pull this way in that way and then

354
00:14:14,300 --> 00:14:11,459
the third is which what I really want to

355
00:14:16,759 --> 00:14:14,310
talk about is let's see what the Yogi's

356
00:14:18,949 --> 00:14:16,769
are saying but let's also contrast that

357
00:14:20,990 --> 00:14:18,959
with this material over here even though

358
00:14:23,139 --> 00:14:21,000
it's channels or this material over here

359
00:14:27,230 --> 00:14:23,149
it notices survey of people who've had

360
00:14:31,309 --> 00:14:27,240
et experiences or people that have a nd

361
00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:31,319
experiences let's really try and and put

362
00:14:35,569 --> 00:14:32,970
our arms around this in a real

363
00:14:37,939 --> 00:14:35,579
systematic way and and that's where I

364
00:14:39,110 --> 00:14:37,949
think we're we need to be at but what do

365
00:14:41,350 --> 00:14:39,120
you think what do you thoughts about

366
00:14:44,230 --> 00:14:41,360
that in general I thought is early on

367
00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:44,240
when I met my my guru my teacher he said

368
00:14:49,060 --> 00:14:47,570
to to me to the group I was with when I

369
00:14:51,630 --> 00:14:49,070
was with him in Switzerland he said

370
00:14:55,630 --> 00:14:51,640
there are several ways that you can get

371
00:14:58,329 --> 00:14:55,640
validation for something like extended

372
00:15:02,079 --> 00:14:58,339
consciousness one personal experience -

373
00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:02,089
a tradition that is long-standing that

374
00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:04,370
is involved with that and three would be

375
00:15:09,100 --> 00:15:06,890
taking a scientific approach so I think

376
00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:09,110
our best way is to kind of go with the

377
00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:10,730
first one right personal experience I'm

378
00:15:15,220 --> 00:15:13,730
in my own right now or the Yogi's who

379
00:15:17,319 --> 00:15:15,230
confided in me and I'll just tell you

380
00:15:21,190 --> 00:15:17,329
one quick story a guy named Maharaja

381
00:15:24,460 --> 00:15:21,200
Burford 10 12 years at gun Goa tree in a

382
00:15:27,310 --> 00:15:24,470
hut he had dreadlocks that felt it don

383
00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:27,320
was feet he lived there year round he

384
00:15:31,780 --> 00:15:30,290
had an assistant this kala the disciple

385
00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:31,790
who took care of and spoke perfect

386
00:15:38,230 --> 00:15:35,450
English Maharaja didn't and so I said to

387
00:15:39,970 --> 00:15:38,240
his assistant I said we'll ask him if he

388
00:15:42,150 --> 00:15:39,980
will ask Maharaja what does he do at

389
00:15:44,980 --> 00:15:42,160
night when he sleeps

390
00:15:46,509 --> 00:15:44,990
this is the pointed question it wasn't

391
00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:46,519
an innocent question of my part I wanted

392
00:15:50,350 --> 00:15:48,890
I was testing me and I didn't tell him a

393
00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:50,360
anymore so what do you do Maharaja when

394
00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:52,370
you sleep at night and Mara - pointed up

395
00:15:57,220 --> 00:15:55,370
to the sky he says at night I travel to

396
00:16:01,269 --> 00:15:57,230
that planet and that planet at that

397
00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:01,279
planet and other places and my only

398
00:16:06,639 --> 00:16:03,410
friends are there and I visit people

399
00:16:10,210 --> 00:16:06,649
being Souls and then I come back I said

400
00:16:12,250 --> 00:16:10,220
okay that's cool because when my

401
00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:12,260
teachers started talking about extended

402
00:16:16,230 --> 00:16:13,730
consciousness when Mara she mentioned

403
00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:16,240
like the teacher I hooked up with in

404
00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:22,730
1972 he he said that the inner

405
00:16:28,060 --> 00:16:25,490
experience that Yogi's have is far

406
00:16:30,910 --> 00:16:28,070
beyond what you were you or your friends

407
00:16:33,130 --> 00:16:30,920
were helped and so he said if a person

408
00:16:36,100 --> 00:16:33,140
is enlightened or fully realized in

409
00:16:38,710 --> 00:16:36,110
himself then they don't sleep the way

410
00:16:40,689 --> 00:16:38,720
the average person sleeps they're fully

411
00:16:41,910 --> 00:16:40,699
awake when they're sleeping and they're

412
00:16:44,139 --> 00:16:41,920
fully conscious and they're having

413
00:16:45,730 --> 00:16:44,149
possibly more exciting expansive

414
00:16:47,710 --> 00:16:45,740
experiences than when they're in their

415
00:16:49,900 --> 00:16:47,720
waking state activity so I asked that

416
00:16:51,460 --> 00:16:49,910
question to find out what he was doing

417
00:16:53,079 --> 00:16:51,470
in sleep and sure enough he wasn't you

418
00:16:53,530 --> 00:16:53,089
know unconscious he was fully conscious

419
00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:53,540
and

420
00:16:58,810 --> 00:16:55,490
having extended consciousness

421
00:17:01,720 --> 00:16:58,820
experiences if we take those experiences

422
00:17:03,220 --> 00:17:01,730
that he was describing as valid and I

423
00:17:06,250 --> 00:17:03,230
have no reason to not believe a guy

424
00:17:07,510 --> 00:17:06,260
because he didn't have to impress me

425
00:17:09,610 --> 00:17:07,520
I don't even think he particularly

426
00:17:10,900 --> 00:17:09,620
wanted to talk with me for the first few

427
00:17:13,780 --> 00:17:10,910
times when I asked him that question

428
00:17:15,970 --> 00:17:13,790
that kind of purchased interest a little

429
00:17:18,250 --> 00:17:15,980
bit so I I thought okay this guy's

430
00:17:21,909 --> 00:17:18,260
probably the real deal because that's

431
00:17:23,829 --> 00:17:21,919
not your average experience so it

432
00:17:26,020 --> 00:17:23,839
validated something that you would

433
00:17:28,750 --> 00:17:26,030
really resonated with me and it is also

434
00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:28,760
something that I had had some taste of

435
00:17:32,289 --> 00:17:30,770
those experiences this was 25 years ago

436
00:17:34,810 --> 00:17:32,299
but I had some tastes of those

437
00:17:36,610 --> 00:17:34,820
experiences so I said okay that jives a

438
00:17:40,450 --> 00:17:36,620
little bit with what I've experienced

439
00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:40,460
and it also matched up a little with the

440
00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:42,290
tradition at Marsh she was saying that

441
00:17:47,620 --> 00:17:45,650
true Yogi's never really sleep they're

442
00:17:48,940 --> 00:17:47,630
awake they might be lying down but

443
00:17:51,610 --> 00:17:48,950
they're awake they may leave the body

444
00:17:53,770 --> 00:17:51,620
and get on to describe traveling through

445
00:17:57,039 --> 00:17:53,780
the universe when he was either

446
00:18:00,039 --> 00:17:57,049
meditating or quote asleep and he was

447
00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:00,049
fully conscious of course for my point

448
00:18:06,130 --> 00:18:03,530
of view and I think yeah so that's great

449
00:18:08,289 --> 00:18:06,140
and I think our mutual friend Rick

450
00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:08,299
Archer on food at the gas pump that's

451
00:18:13,030 --> 00:18:10,970
one of his kind of probing I don't want

452
00:18:14,590 --> 00:18:13,040
to say trick questions but validating

453
00:18:17,590 --> 00:18:14,600
questions too because that's something

454
00:18:20,409 --> 00:18:17,600
that's been kind of bandied around in

455
00:18:22,060 --> 00:18:20,419
the non-dual community and stuff like

456
00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:22,070
that and Rick in general has done a

457
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:25,850
fantastic job of kind of bringing trying

458
00:18:31,149 --> 00:18:29,210
to corral the the cats of spiritual

459
00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:31,159
awakening in a way and try and pin some

460
00:18:37,120 --> 00:18:33,890
of these things down I feel there are

461
00:18:40,419 --> 00:18:37,130
benchmarks that many people experience

462
00:18:42,909 --> 00:18:40,429
along the way but like snowflakes every

463
00:18:44,919 --> 00:18:42,919
single one of us has it the uniqueness

464
00:18:46,780 --> 00:18:44,929
to us and so I don't think that two

465
00:18:49,360 --> 00:18:46,790
people are ever going to have the

466
00:18:51,460 --> 00:18:49,370
identical experience on the path at the

467
00:18:53,500 --> 00:18:51,470
same point in the path and maybe even

468
00:18:55,870 --> 00:18:53,510
have the same path in general but I do

469
00:18:58,870 --> 00:18:55,880
feel that there are some commonalities

470
00:19:01,000 --> 00:18:58,880
that are worth noting and I felt that

471
00:19:01,750 --> 00:19:01,010
Maharaja's experience that that to me

472
00:19:03,100 --> 00:19:01,760
was a green light

473
00:19:05,740 --> 00:19:03,110
okay let's hang out with this guy if

474
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:05,750
he's willing and we talk we would bring

475
00:19:09,270 --> 00:19:06,730
him firewood

476
00:19:09,900 --> 00:19:09,280
so the kind of show that we were trying

477
00:19:13,050 --> 00:19:09,910
to be helpful

478
00:19:14,610 --> 00:19:13,060
he talked to us for days and days I'll

479
00:19:17,010 --> 00:19:14,620
give you one more validation possibly

480
00:19:20,100 --> 00:19:17,020
for him they had they have these huge

481
00:19:22,020 --> 00:19:20,110
side who conventions if he will they had

482
00:19:24,390 --> 00:19:22,030
one in in the state of ERISA and the

483
00:19:26,340 --> 00:19:24,400
king of Nepal came down there and the

484
00:19:29,310 --> 00:19:26,350
King hunts in his royal hunting grounds

485
00:19:30,930 --> 00:19:29,320
a big call and he he had shot a tiger a

486
00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:30,940
couple of deer and a couple of other

487
00:19:36,750 --> 00:19:33,810
animals and may skin these animals and

488
00:19:41,010 --> 00:19:36,760
he what year now this is when this was

489
00:19:43,110 --> 00:19:41,020
in this was in 1994 before the

490
00:19:46,290 --> 00:19:43,120
assassination of the king before they

491
00:19:49,740 --> 00:19:46,300
switched over to a democracy a couple

492
00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:49,750
years later and so that decide it was

493
00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:53,850
the Yogi's value very much deerskin and

494
00:19:58,620 --> 00:19:57,010
tiger skins for some subtle reasons it

495
00:20:01,110 --> 00:19:58,630
protects their energy I'm not really

496
00:20:03,360 --> 00:20:01,120
sure that I should or I should try to

497
00:20:04,710 --> 00:20:03,370
even go there right right but if they

498
00:20:06,710 --> 00:20:04,720
just they can they also they that

499
00:20:11,190 --> 00:20:06,720
traditionally bill up and sit on

500
00:20:13,610 --> 00:20:11,200
absolutely meditate on skins so the the

501
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:13,620
king of a Paul was was attending this

502
00:20:19,860 --> 00:20:17,650
sannyasi a yogi convention in erisa

503
00:20:21,660 --> 00:20:19,870
and there were mid read fifty thousand

504
00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:21,670
yogi said I gather it was a big deal and

505
00:20:27,990 --> 00:20:25,330
Maharaja was there and everyone was just

506
00:20:29,970 --> 00:20:28,000
kind of milling around and the the king

507
00:20:33,510 --> 00:20:29,980
of Nepal decided okay it's time to give

508
00:20:35,580 --> 00:20:33,520
out my the skins to various odd who's

509
00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:35,590
who and I don't know how he selected me

510
00:20:38,580 --> 00:20:36,850
he's walking around he gave a deerskin

511
00:20:40,530 --> 00:20:38,590
to this guy and he gave it another

512
00:20:42,510 --> 00:20:40,540
deerskin to this guy and he kept walking

513
00:20:45,030 --> 00:20:42,520
around because the typically the

514
00:20:46,890 --> 00:20:45,040
cherished one was the tiger skin and he

515
00:20:48,450 --> 00:20:46,900
walked around he looked I know how he's

516
00:20:50,610 --> 00:20:48,460
evaluate nobody's looking at people and

517
00:20:52,830 --> 00:20:50,620
McAfee bunny walked up and he stopped in

518
00:20:54,860 --> 00:20:52,840
front of Maharaja presented the tiger

519
00:20:58,380 --> 00:20:54,870
skin to him Tigers can still had the

520
00:21:00,240 --> 00:20:58,390
skin and to this day last time I saw

521
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:00,250
Maharaj he was he was sitting on that

522
00:21:02,580 --> 00:21:01,810
tiger skin for meditation what he

523
00:21:06,470 --> 00:21:02,590
chances

524
00:21:09,570 --> 00:21:06,480
he likes to chant the Devi Stooges baby

525
00:21:12,780 --> 00:21:09,580
tree Bobby Tom because where he saw

526
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:12,790
husband on that sort of thing and hit he

527
00:21:16,710 --> 00:21:15,010
didn't tell me the story his assistant

528
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:16,720
told me the story when he wasn't there I

529
00:21:19,580 --> 00:21:18,010
don't know if he would ever told me that

530
00:21:21,470 --> 00:21:19,590
story because he's

531
00:21:24,140 --> 00:21:21,480
humble person I don't think he really

532
00:21:26,029 --> 00:21:24,150
wanted to his own horn but okay okay

533
00:21:27,620 --> 00:21:26,039
well that's pretty cool because if the

534
00:21:30,370 --> 00:21:27,630
king of Nepal picked him out out of

535
00:21:32,990 --> 00:21:30,380
20,000 people there must be some

536
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:33,000
hopefully valid reason for that now so

537
00:21:45,710 --> 00:21:41,250
that was what we would think big million

538
00:21:49,250 --> 00:21:45,720
ways to go the king and how do we you

539
00:21:51,799 --> 00:21:49,260
organize and then just come into Tibet

540
00:21:53,539 --> 00:21:51,809
and they pull the monks out of the bang

541
00:21:56,029 --> 00:21:53,549
and they're commies but we should

542
00:21:58,730 --> 00:21:56,039
forgive I mean is I don't know I want to

543
00:22:00,680 --> 00:21:58,740
begin to go there I tell you I go into

544
00:22:03,470 --> 00:22:00,690
the people I'll leave that to you I'm

545
00:22:08,570 --> 00:22:03,480
happy to give you by my feelings in my

546
00:22:09,919 --> 00:22:08,580
opinion that's where I want to go that's

547
00:22:12,350 --> 00:22:09,929
exactly where I wanna go and I'll tell

548
00:22:13,970 --> 00:22:12,360
you why you know I'm writing this I'm

549
00:22:15,649 --> 00:22:13,980
actually writing this book and the title

550
00:22:18,409 --> 00:22:15,659
of the book encapsulate s'what it's

551
00:22:21,590 --> 00:22:18,419
about why evil matters and the the

552
00:22:25,549 --> 00:22:21,600
premise of the book is that evil is a

553
00:22:28,159 --> 00:22:25,559
lens it's an inescapable lens to these

554
00:22:29,930 --> 00:22:28,169
extended consciousness realms so almost

555
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:29,940
like the stories you tell we can kind of

556
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:32,250
get lost in the goodness or the

557
00:22:37,940 --> 00:22:35,850
wonderfulness and all the wonderful love

558
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:37,950
and light and the king gave them the

559
00:22:43,010 --> 00:22:41,010
thing let's talk about evil let's talk

560
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:43,020
about fear because I think it brings

561
00:22:50,570 --> 00:22:45,570
another dimension into this big element

562
00:22:51,919 --> 00:22:50,580
in our human experience a huge oh and in

563
00:22:55,370 --> 00:22:51,929
some people's eyes it completely

564
00:22:59,659 --> 00:22:55,380
dominates they are so locked up in fear

565
00:23:03,110 --> 00:22:59,669
that that their ability to function is

566
00:23:05,750 --> 00:23:03,120
is impeded let me bring up a quote from

567
00:23:09,889 --> 00:23:05,760
your book the tale of the Himalayan

568
00:23:12,529 --> 00:23:09,899
Yogi's and let's go to the fear and here

569
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:12,539
are three different little snippets from

570
00:23:19,370 --> 00:23:15,450
the book and the first is what can fear

571
00:23:20,779 --> 00:23:19,380
due to the fearless but fear them which

572
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:20,789
i think is kind of interesting saying

573
00:23:24,620 --> 00:23:22,890
that they they're feeding off the fear

574
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:24,630
and then the another quote is like

575
00:23:33,430 --> 00:23:29,970
attracts like well if we think about the

576
00:23:37,390 --> 00:23:33,440
most basic human emotions love is there

577
00:23:39,910 --> 00:23:37,400
fear is there and fear has an hatred and

578
00:23:44,860 --> 00:23:39,920
those things have a lot of offshoots

579
00:23:47,260 --> 00:23:44,870
anxiety nervousness jealousy all those

580
00:23:50,230 --> 00:23:47,270
kinds of things are sort of bifurcations

581
00:23:52,690 --> 00:23:50,240
of or forms of fear but what is fear

582
00:23:56,260 --> 00:23:52,700
it's talking about yeah what we create

583
00:23:58,660 --> 00:23:56,270
and how we create the ego states that

584
00:24:00,580 --> 00:23:58,670
are within us and what we understand to

585
00:24:03,490 --> 00:24:00,590
be who we are we do have to get down to

586
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:03,500
that fundamental question of who are we

587
00:24:08,350 --> 00:24:06,290
and what have we become what decisions

588
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:08,360
have we made to make us who we are

589
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:11,570
I think one quality of fear is the

590
00:24:17,980 --> 00:24:15,290
anxiety that I'll have my freedom of

591
00:24:22,390 --> 00:24:17,990
choice compromise that someone some

592
00:24:24,460 --> 00:24:22,400
governments on my wife might my boss my

593
00:24:27,990 --> 00:24:24,470
the coach on the sports team that

594
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:28,000
there's some how when to steal my

595
00:24:33,130 --> 00:24:31,490
ability my free will my freedom of

596
00:24:35,530 --> 00:24:33,140
choice I think that's something we see

597
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:35,540
all over the world with governments and

598
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:37,730
in a lot of different contexts

599
00:24:42,610 --> 00:24:40,010
religiously we see clergy stealing the

600
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:42,620
free will of their flock we see

601
00:24:47,650 --> 00:24:45,770
political leaders compromising people's

602
00:24:49,510 --> 00:24:47,660
freedom of choice more than ever maybe

603
00:24:52,990 --> 00:24:49,520
possibly right now during this pandemic

604
00:24:55,900 --> 00:24:53,000
so I feel like people have an innate

605
00:24:58,720 --> 00:24:55,910
fear of losing their ability to

606
00:25:00,010 --> 00:24:58,730
determine the direction of their life so

607
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:00,020
that's that may not be the most

608
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:01,490
fundamental thing but I think it's a

609
00:25:06,100 --> 00:25:03,770
pretty fundamental thing but I guess

610
00:25:11,490 --> 00:25:06,110
what I'm driving at is to what extent is

611
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:11,500
that is that real I mean I am more it's

612
00:25:16,210 --> 00:25:14,450
it's all illusory I mean I get that

613
00:25:17,950 --> 00:25:16,220
because we can kind of get that and it

614
00:25:20,470 --> 00:25:17,960
becomes the blob of consciousness thing

615
00:25:22,030 --> 00:25:20,480
and it's non-dual and ultimately it's

616
00:25:24,460 --> 00:25:22,040
all an illusion here's the point I guess

617
00:25:27,670 --> 00:25:24,470
I'm trying to make is that when you

618
00:25:29,650 --> 00:25:27,680
start listing real fears that we can

619
00:25:31,710 --> 00:25:29,660
have like you're mentioning the comic

620
00:25:33,940 --> 00:25:31,720
Ovid thing that we're in the middle of

621
00:25:35,620 --> 00:25:33,950
legitimate reason to be afraid of that

622
00:25:37,780 --> 00:25:35,630
you mentioned about the power of

623
00:25:40,090 --> 00:25:37,790
governments or the power of your boss or

624
00:25:41,980 --> 00:25:40,100
even your wife those things are real but

625
00:25:44,110 --> 00:25:41,990
I think what most of us have a harder

626
00:25:45,790 --> 00:25:44,120
time really coming to grips with but in

627
00:25:46,549 --> 00:25:45,800
a lot of ways is a better insight into

628
00:25:48,799 --> 00:25:46,559
what's really

629
00:25:51,619 --> 00:25:48,809
going on inside of us is the fear we

630
00:25:53,539 --> 00:25:51,629
have about the spider that's crawling on

631
00:25:55,759 --> 00:25:53,549
the walls I'm called in to the house I'm

632
00:25:58,399 --> 00:25:55,769
the spider control and I go to my kids

633
00:26:00,560 --> 00:25:58,409
my girls I'm like what what are we doing

634
00:26:02,419 --> 00:26:00,570
here what let's kind of break that down

635
00:26:04,430 --> 00:26:02,429
why do we have that fear and of course

636
00:26:09,220 --> 00:26:04,440
we have fears of other things that are

637
00:26:11,659 --> 00:26:09,230
really debilitating to people as well so

638
00:26:13,159 --> 00:26:11,669
what's at the core that and then we kind

639
00:26:14,360 --> 00:26:13,169
of create this other level of it they're

640
00:26:17,330 --> 00:26:14,370
going on to talk about when we talk

641
00:26:19,340 --> 00:26:17,340
about demons in Hell and spirits into

642
00:26:21,859 --> 00:26:19,350
what except we need to fear them as well

643
00:26:24,379 --> 00:26:21,869
somewhere in the novel the GU of the

644
00:26:27,859 --> 00:26:24,389
hero the girl the protagonist as

645
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:27,869
teaching his teaching he use the analogy

646
00:26:33,409 --> 00:26:29,970
of a tiger that moves through the forest

647
00:26:36,859 --> 00:26:33,419
and wherever the tiger goes fear is

648
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:36,869
present in the monkeys is present in the

649
00:26:40,489 --> 00:26:38,610
ground animals and everybody feels the

650
00:26:43,310 --> 00:26:40,499
fear of it and they can sense the Tigers

651
00:26:45,259 --> 00:26:43,320
presence the tiger may move on and go a

652
00:26:48,950 --> 00:26:45,269
couple to the next Mountain over but the

653
00:26:52,159 --> 00:26:48,960
the lingering effect of the Tigers

654
00:26:55,399 --> 00:26:52,169
presence is still there with the animals

655
00:26:57,739 --> 00:26:55,409
even long after the Tigers gone now that

656
00:26:59,810 --> 00:26:57,749
residual influence that stress that got

657
00:27:01,999 --> 00:26:59,820
put in the monkey from being you know

658
00:27:04,249 --> 00:27:02,009
nearly attacked or being hunted for a

659
00:27:06,399 --> 00:27:04,259
while were the thought that they the

660
00:27:10,279 --> 00:27:06,409
monkey thought he was being hunted is

661
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:10,289
creates a Sun scar a stress strain and

662
00:27:18,310 --> 00:27:14,369
impurity in his consciousness the

663
00:27:23,810 --> 00:27:22,039
lack of light or that lack of clarity

664
00:27:25,730 --> 00:27:23,820
that that cloud that shadow that's

665
00:27:28,669 --> 00:27:25,740
coming in as a result of Tiger creating

666
00:27:30,019 --> 00:27:28,679
fear stays with that monkey and it could

667
00:27:33,019 --> 00:27:30,029
stay with him for the rest of his life

668
00:27:34,970 --> 00:27:33,029
it could if it was face to face with the

669
00:27:38,149 --> 00:27:34,980
tiger it may be ten lifetimes before

670
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:38,159
that creature that soul could resolve

671
00:27:45,049 --> 00:27:41,850
that intense fear if it was face to face

672
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:45,059
so my problem with that I mean I'm okay

673
00:27:50,419 --> 00:27:47,850
with that I think that's true but I want

674
00:27:52,940 --> 00:27:50,429
to try and understand that for more of a

675
00:27:54,540 --> 00:27:52,950
psychological level and I got a

676
00:27:57,780 --> 00:27:54,550
psychologist I wouldn't really

677
00:27:59,340 --> 00:27:57,790
qualified to say what triggers them but

678
00:28:01,590 --> 00:27:59,350
the way I understand it from the point

679
00:28:04,710 --> 00:28:01,600
of view son scars that are lying late

680
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:04,720
they are triggered by certain

681
00:28:08,790 --> 00:28:07,330
experiences in our environment at any

682
00:28:10,950 --> 00:28:08,800
point in time and when they're triggered

683
00:28:13,050 --> 00:28:10,960
they can cause irrational fear they

684
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:13,060
could cause terror they could cause a

685
00:28:21,900 --> 00:28:15,850
heart attack any kind of thing could

686
00:28:22,590 --> 00:28:21,910
could result so those fears need to be

687
00:28:24,390 --> 00:28:22,600
dealt with

688
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:24,400
we can't shove them under the carpet we

689
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:25,930
have to deal with them and that's where

690
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:28,890
a spiritual practice like meditation or

691
00:28:34,970 --> 00:28:31,570
counseling all kinds of things can come

692
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:34,980
into play to help us resolve these knots

693
00:28:39,450 --> 00:28:37,810
he's what they call them grantees in

694
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:39,460
this Vedic lore

695
00:28:45,210 --> 00:28:41,530
he's not in the physiology that

696
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:45,220
literally are are impeding the flow of

697
00:28:51,690 --> 00:28:48,970
consciousness as it could flow if we did

698
00:28:55,830 --> 00:28:51,700
if we didn't happen and in the West we

699
00:28:58,050 --> 00:28:55,840
have Carl Jung and our shadow which is

700
00:29:00,960 --> 00:28:58,060
another aspect of this and the idea that

701
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:00,970
we need to integrate the shadow aspects

702
00:29:05,250 --> 00:29:02,170
of ourselves so it's something that's

703
00:29:07,290 --> 00:29:05,260
popped up again and again and I think

704
00:29:11,250 --> 00:29:07,300
you're onto something and I do think

705
00:29:13,460 --> 00:29:11,260
it's also super interesting like what

706
00:29:18,300 --> 00:29:13,470
you just proposed there I think is a

707
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:18,310
borderline to a scientific kind of

708
00:29:23,250 --> 00:29:21,730
thesis that is we have this energy

709
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:23,260
that's supposed to be flowing through

710
00:29:30,300 --> 00:29:26,770
our body and when we impede the flow of

711
00:29:34,290 --> 00:29:30,310
that energy different things happen that

712
00:29:36,810 --> 00:29:34,300
aren't so good and I would suggest as

713
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:36,820
some people have told me that that kind

714
00:29:42,060 --> 00:29:40,450
of opens the door for this evil thing

715
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:42,070
because we want to get that energy

716
00:29:46,740 --> 00:29:44,050
flowing and if we don't know how to do

717
00:29:51,300 --> 00:29:46,750
it we might seek all sorts of ways to do

718
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:51,310
it either drugs or other behaviors that

719
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:53,290
might not be good in long term but

720
00:29:58,470 --> 00:29:55,690
because they mask they they mask the

721
00:30:00,450 --> 00:29:58,480
pain they mask the subconscious calculus

722
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:00,460
that's part of the practice of various

723
00:30:05,790 --> 00:30:03,250
powerful pranayams and yogic practices

724
00:30:08,159 --> 00:30:05,800
like hatha yoga and meditation they they

725
00:30:10,259 --> 00:30:08,169
they can

726
00:30:12,930 --> 00:30:10,269
Dress these these knots in the

727
00:30:16,379 --> 00:30:12,940
physiology and when a person gets to a

728
00:30:19,529 --> 00:30:16,389
state where they're a master or a true

729
00:30:20,879 --> 00:30:19,539
sage they've resolved those in one way

730
00:30:22,759 --> 00:30:20,889
or another maybe through the help of

731
00:30:27,180 --> 00:30:22,769
their own guru through their own

732
00:30:29,039 --> 00:30:27,190
extended practice whatever don't don't

733
00:30:30,690 --> 00:30:29,049
have me down that path because I'm going

734
00:30:32,970 --> 00:30:30,700
up you're I'm gonna bring up your guy

735
00:30:37,470 --> 00:30:32,980
again and it doesn't always work that

736
00:30:40,289 --> 00:30:37,480
way and that's what I think that's

737
00:30:41,999 --> 00:30:40,299
that's the problem in my mind and and

738
00:30:42,450 --> 00:30:42,009
I'm gonna expand this even more in just

739
00:30:44,849 --> 00:30:42,460
a minute

740
00:30:46,619 --> 00:30:44,859
but it's like don't be so sure because

741
00:30:48,869 --> 00:30:46,629
that's what the Western scientists can

742
00:30:51,779 --> 00:30:48,879
do is like I'm not so fast I have this

743
00:30:55,919 --> 00:30:51,789
contradictory explanation of things over

744
00:30:57,840 --> 00:30:55,929
here to you if you allow someone else to

745
00:31:00,869 --> 00:30:57,850
do the work for you and the works not

746
00:31:03,180 --> 00:31:00,879
going to get done we ought we all I'm

747
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:03,190
saying if it's your teacher your whoever

748
00:31:06,989 --> 00:31:04,330
you've got to do the work yourself

749
00:31:08,039 --> 00:31:06,999
absolute maybe there's no work to do let

750
00:31:09,930 --> 00:31:08,049
me give you an example because I've been

751
00:31:11,970 --> 00:31:09,940
holding off on the last quote on that

752
00:31:13,739 --> 00:31:11,980
screen that I just shared with you and I

753
00:31:15,539 --> 00:31:13,749
think it's to me it launches into some

754
00:31:18,029 --> 00:31:15,549
of these hard harder questions and the

755
00:31:21,539 --> 00:31:18,039
quote from the book is demons fear that

756
00:31:23,759 --> 00:31:21,549
which is protected by love they feed

757
00:31:26,129 --> 00:31:23,769
fear in the way a villager craves food

758
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:26,139
after a day's work in the field there's

759
00:31:33,629 --> 00:31:28,090
a couple words here that really kind of

760
00:31:36,690 --> 00:31:33,639
spark me and who's to say I mean to

761
00:31:38,340 --> 00:31:36,700
suggest that we understand the mind of

762
00:31:39,629 --> 00:31:38,350
God and there's these demons and we

763
00:31:41,669 --> 00:31:39,639
understand what they are in this

764
00:31:43,950 --> 00:31:41,679
extended realm but oh no they're

765
00:31:47,460 --> 00:31:43,960
protected by love what the hell does

766
00:31:50,009 --> 00:31:47,470
that mean in terms of a free will kind

767
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:50,019
of cosmology that we have and they feed

768
00:31:54,509 --> 00:31:52,450
on fear we hear that over and over again

769
00:31:56,099 --> 00:31:54,519
what does that really mean I mean these

770
00:31:58,560 --> 00:31:56,109
are the kind of statements I think that

771
00:32:01,409 --> 00:31:58,570
really throw people for a loop and also

772
00:32:04,229 --> 00:32:01,419
if you look at people that are kind of

773
00:32:06,210 --> 00:32:04,239
in meshed in a in a cultish kind of

774
00:32:08,849 --> 00:32:06,220
thing these are the kind of things that

775
00:32:11,849 --> 00:32:08,859
feed those kind of beliefs that how the

776
00:32:13,580 --> 00:32:11,859
heck would I ever figure out what my

777
00:32:16,859 --> 00:32:13,590
path is when I have to worry about

778
00:32:18,629 --> 00:32:16,869
demons that are feeding off of my fear

779
00:32:20,419 --> 00:32:18,639
maybe we really have to go there we

780
00:32:21,900 --> 00:32:20,429
don't know if any of that stuff is real

781
00:32:23,340 --> 00:32:21,910
that

782
00:32:25,860 --> 00:32:23,350
he picks an interesting quote because

783
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:25,870
that quote I lifted directly from a

784
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:27,850
conversation I had with the yogi in the

785
00:32:34,620 --> 00:32:31,090
Himalayas we were talking about human

786
00:32:37,790 --> 00:32:34,630
emotion and at one point he said if

787
00:32:41,300 --> 00:32:37,800
human emotion is the most misunderstood

788
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:41,310
quality of the human being and our

789
00:32:47,940 --> 00:32:46,090
inability to and he didn't use word

790
00:32:51,300 --> 00:32:47,950
control our emotions but the our

791
00:32:54,780 --> 00:32:51,310
inability to channel our emotion to

792
00:32:59,340 --> 00:32:54,790
utilize our emotions in the most self

793
00:33:04,350 --> 00:32:59,350
beneficial way is a huge stumbling block

794
00:33:06,180 --> 00:33:04,360
for for almost and he so I basically

795
00:33:08,610 --> 00:33:06,190
that was my the quote seat he gave me I

796
00:33:10,500 --> 00:33:08,620
just put it right in there well I'll

797
00:33:12,210 --> 00:33:10,510
give you a cook from my buddy I was just

798
00:33:14,310 --> 00:33:12,220
talking about Tom's Ensor right so Tom's

799
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:14,320
Ensor spent thirty years hundreds and

800
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:15,970
hundreds of clients he's working within

801
00:33:19,710 --> 00:33:18,370
a clinical setting he's the first one to

802
00:33:22,620 --> 00:33:19,720
acknowledge that as soon as he starts

803
00:33:24,660 --> 00:33:22,630
talking to spirits he's off relations as

804
00:33:26,490 --> 00:33:24,670
far as a psychologist a clinical

805
00:33:28,140 --> 00:33:26,500
psychologist is concerned but at the

806
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:28,150
same time he's bringing that rigor and

807
00:33:32,250 --> 00:33:30,370
that training to his work he's

808
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:32,260
transcribing all the sessions he's

809
00:33:35,820 --> 00:33:33,730
trying to work with people he's putting

810
00:33:36,930 --> 00:33:35,830
him into deep trance and then trying to

811
00:33:40,260 --> 00:33:36,940
connect with him in all these different

812
00:33:41,550 --> 00:33:40,270
ways and what he says is I think in some

813
00:33:44,100 --> 00:33:41,560
ways fits with what you're saying but

814
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:44,110
also offers a different understanding of

815
00:33:46,770 --> 00:33:45,370
it and this is goes back to the

816
00:33:48,630 --> 00:33:46,780
beginning of this where I think we need

817
00:33:50,190 --> 00:33:48,640
to go and I'm not agreeing with Tom but

818
00:33:52,140 --> 00:33:50,200
he says look we all of these ego states

819
00:33:54,300 --> 00:33:52,150
when we separate these ego states in our

820
00:33:56,460 --> 00:33:54,310
mind you know like multiple personality

821
00:33:57,960 --> 00:33:56,470
disorder which is not a popular term

822
00:34:00,030 --> 00:33:57,970
it's now disassociative identity

823
00:34:01,950 --> 00:34:00,040
disorder that's what it is but it's the

824
00:34:03,540 --> 00:34:01,960
same thing we recognize it he says hey

825
00:34:05,190 --> 00:34:03,550
and then it gets into the tapa thing you

826
00:34:08,070 --> 00:34:05,200
separate these things out and they can

827
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:08,080
kind of form an energy of their own and

828
00:34:12,210 --> 00:34:10,570
they can even attract other spirits and

829
00:34:14,340 --> 00:34:12,220
I've you talked abou de San Buddhists

830
00:34:16,409 --> 00:34:14,350
will tell you exactly that and they've

831
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:16,419
explored it in that way but then here's

832
00:34:21,900 --> 00:34:19,330
what he says further he says even if

833
00:34:23,490 --> 00:34:21,910
these spirits come and and then he

834
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:23,500
breaks down the kind of spirits because

835
00:34:28,230 --> 00:34:26,290
some spirits are just mischievio spirits

836
00:34:31,100 --> 00:34:28,240
they're stuck they haven't gone to the

837
00:34:33,450 --> 00:34:31,110
light and they're just kind of missing

838
00:34:35,300 --> 00:34:33,460
yeah and he said but sometimes it's also

839
00:34:37,610 --> 00:34:35,310
even relatives that should

840
00:34:39,500 --> 00:34:37,620
but mom wants us stick around and she's

841
00:34:41,630 --> 00:34:39,510
bugging you but then there's some

842
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:41,640
spirits that are have never incarnated

843
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:43,530
and have just gone into the darkness and

844
00:34:47,060 --> 00:34:44,970
the darkness is different from the evil

845
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:47,070
darkness is like a gravitational force

846
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:50,130
anyways he has a whole description of

847
00:34:55,850 --> 00:34:52,650
how this works and I are I'm not saying

848
00:34:58,700 --> 00:34:55,860
that that is the answer but I'm saying

849
00:35:02,140 --> 00:34:58,710
when I see something like what I just

850
00:35:04,790 --> 00:35:02,150
put up on the screen I see differences

851
00:35:07,850 --> 00:35:04,800
irreconcilable differences in my mind

852
00:35:11,060 --> 00:35:07,860
between what he's saying and what the

853
00:35:12,590 --> 00:35:11,070
Yogi's saying I don't think the the idea

854
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:12,600
that and one of the main things that I

855
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:14,610
guess I want to dispel but I don't know

856
00:35:18,230 --> 00:35:16,050
if I can and I know if that's stretching

857
00:35:22,340 --> 00:35:18,240
it too far but this idea that we can

858
00:35:26,210 --> 00:35:22,350
compel these spirit entities to do

859
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:26,220
anything on our behalf or against us or

860
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:28,530
anything like that seems like such a

861
00:35:33,290 --> 00:35:31,290
stretch especially from this non-dual

862
00:35:36,050 --> 00:35:33,300
perspective if we get at that at some

863
00:35:38,720 --> 00:35:36,060
deeper level we have somehow created all

864
00:35:42,170 --> 00:35:38,730
this stuff in the first place then it

865
00:35:44,660 --> 00:35:42,180
seems like a not such a great idea to

866
00:35:47,150 --> 00:35:44,670
think that we can somehow manage and

867
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:47,160
manipulate these demons and make them

868
00:35:52,550 --> 00:35:49,650
afraid because we're going this way or

869
00:35:54,740 --> 00:35:52,560
worried that if we walk into this

870
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:54,750
situation in that a situation we're

871
00:36:00,430 --> 00:35:56,970
going to be accosted by these things I'd

872
00:36:04,310 --> 00:36:00,440
like to if it's real come to a different

873
00:36:05,990 --> 00:36:04,320
more mature understanding of it unless

874
00:36:08,750 --> 00:36:06,000
that's the reality of it unless we

875
00:36:11,150 --> 00:36:08,760
really do have to fear these demons and

876
00:36:14,150 --> 00:36:11,160
there's no way we can get around them

877
00:36:16,340 --> 00:36:14,160
other than by circling in a circle and

878
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:16,350
drawing a this kind of figure with a

879
00:36:22,550 --> 00:36:18,690
sharpened knife hey if that's what it

880
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:22,560
takes let me know well in in a novel I

881
00:36:26,720 --> 00:36:24,930
have that antagonist named critter Bob

882
00:36:29,990 --> 00:36:26,730
and we don't need to necessarily talk

883
00:36:31,790 --> 00:36:30,000
about him specifically but he was he had

884
00:36:35,300 --> 00:36:31,800
all the training and all the background

885
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:35,310
that the yogic tradition offers but he

886
00:36:41,660 --> 00:36:38,130
spun off into anything this is just his

887
00:36:44,330 --> 00:36:41,670
situation and his ego took him off on a

888
00:36:47,810 --> 00:36:44,340
trip and he decided to use his his

889
00:36:51,060 --> 00:36:47,820
skills to practice or

890
00:36:53,430 --> 00:36:51,070
to practice to practice a dark form of

891
00:36:56,370 --> 00:36:53,440
tantric now as I lived in India for

892
00:36:58,170 --> 00:36:56,380
those years about every six months I see

893
00:37:00,930 --> 00:36:58,180
a big article in The Times of India or

894
00:37:07,140 --> 00:37:00,940
Hindustan Times about some tantric

895
00:37:12,180 --> 00:37:07,150
sorcerer who made a human sacrifice to

896
00:37:14,970 --> 00:37:12,190
propitiate their favorite extended

897
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:14,980
dimensional being a demon will say and

898
00:37:18,870 --> 00:37:17,290
if you look into the Vedic tradition you

899
00:37:22,500 --> 00:37:18,880
will find whether it's the Puranas

900
00:37:24,750 --> 00:37:22,510
you'll find that the Robin is the most

901
00:37:28,970 --> 00:37:24,760
famous demon probably to the Western

902
00:37:32,630 --> 00:37:28,980
mind Robin was roms nemesis Rob Robin

903
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:32,640
abducted Robb Lord Rama's wife Sita

904
00:37:41,130 --> 00:37:39,010
Robin was powerful being and if you have

905
00:37:44,130 --> 00:37:41,140
some confidence in the Vedic tradition

906
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:44,140
you say okay would these beings do exist

907
00:37:48,990 --> 00:37:45,970
on some to mention they're not

908
00:37:51,990 --> 00:37:49,000
necessarily meant to even be in the

909
00:37:54,180 --> 00:37:52,000
human realm but they're at another realm

910
00:37:56,610 --> 00:37:54,190
which is invisible to us just the way if

911
00:37:58,500 --> 00:37:56,620
there's an angel somewhere in the

912
00:38:00,270 --> 00:37:58,510
universe that they are also in a in a

913
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:00,280
non-physical realm that but they exist

914
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:03,010
somewhere as a form of energy or light

915
00:38:08,330 --> 00:38:05,050
or something science could have a hard

916
00:38:12,330 --> 00:38:08,340
time like that but these beings are

917
00:38:15,720 --> 00:38:12,340
written about that length invade the

918
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:15,730
scriptures and they're integral they are

919
00:38:19,190 --> 00:38:17,650
the shadow side I mean if you look at

920
00:38:21,660 --> 00:38:19,200
probably the three most famous

921
00:38:24,090 --> 00:38:21,670
personalities that we can associate with

922
00:38:26,130 --> 00:38:24,100
spiritual I got we've got Jesus we've

923
00:38:29,910 --> 00:38:26,140
got Buddha and we got Krishna well all

924
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:29,920
three of them faced huge obstacles from

925
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:32,290
shadow figures that tried to kill them

926
00:38:36,270 --> 00:38:34,690
as infants Krishna they tried to can

927
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:36,280
concentrate to kill him when he was a

928
00:38:44,190 --> 00:38:41,050
baby who does cousin David Atta was his

929
00:38:46,830 --> 00:38:44,200
nemesis they wanted to poison him Jesus

930
00:38:48,720 --> 00:38:46,840
we know his story so there is a Sheree

931
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:48,730
we even know all those stories would as

932
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:52,690
as historical fact as allegory as well I

933
00:38:57,330 --> 00:38:56,050
think that's each person's truth you can

934
00:38:58,770 --> 00:38:57,340
go there if you want I was gonna say we

935
00:38:59,520 --> 00:38:58,780
can't go there but of course you can go

936
00:39:01,110 --> 00:38:59,530
there

937
00:39:03,690 --> 00:39:01,120
but I think this is the intersection

938
00:39:06,450 --> 00:39:03,700
that we have I mean we accept certain

939
00:39:09,330 --> 00:39:06,460
things certain events in our life as

940
00:39:11,910 --> 00:39:09,340
being true in consensus reality we all

941
00:39:15,270 --> 00:39:11,920
saw them we'll all experience them so

942
00:39:17,940 --> 00:39:15,280
it's the Afghan war or if it's 9/11 yeah

943
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:17,950
the building's fell so I think we have

944
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:20,170
to make a distinction between stuff that

945
00:39:25,530 --> 00:39:23,770
we say is real historically and stuff we

946
00:39:27,030 --> 00:39:25,540
say well we don't know if it's real

947
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:27,040
historically I'd make a similar

948
00:39:35,310 --> 00:39:29,410
distinction here I don't start telling

949
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:35,320
me we know this or that I just think I

950
00:39:42,150 --> 00:39:39,610
said that these are stories that many

951
00:39:43,890 --> 00:39:42,160
people believe I personally if you want

952
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:43,900
my personal I feel that the great

953
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:45,610
sections of the Bible have completely

954
00:39:49,650 --> 00:39:47,410
been rewritten and I think that that's

955
00:39:52,950 --> 00:39:49,660
true with a lot of Vedic scriptures as

956
00:39:54,930 --> 00:39:52,960
well I do think there are very

957
00:39:58,620 --> 00:39:54,940
fundamental truths that exist there and

958
00:40:00,450 --> 00:39:58,630
that but that's my opinion my truth and

959
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:00,460
I don't expect mine to be the same as

960
00:40:05,670 --> 00:40:03,010
any as any other viewer or listener or

961
00:40:07,290 --> 00:40:05,680
UI but I know I'm not saying that it

962
00:40:09,330 --> 00:40:07,300
look you're bringing you're bringing a

963
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:09,340
lot to the table I have the utmost

964
00:40:14,940 --> 00:40:12,970
respect as I explained earlier in this

965
00:40:18,930 --> 00:40:14,950
interview here folks we're talking to a

966
00:40:20,430 --> 00:40:18,940
guy who's not only an MBA a professional

967
00:40:21,540 --> 00:40:20,440
who's been successful but he's a great

968
00:40:25,260 --> 00:40:21,550
tennis player too

969
00:40:26,580 --> 00:40:25,270
we talked about that but here's the

970
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:26,590
thing let me just oppose what you're

971
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:30,370
saying with my interview a year ago so

972
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:33,010
with Claire broad so she's a medium in

973
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:35,530
the UK and she's a really nice person I

974
00:40:38,970 --> 00:40:37,090
like her and she's a mom and she has

975
00:40:40,890 --> 00:40:38,980
three gay kids and and a husband and

976
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:40,900
stuff like that and I say Claire you've

977
00:40:44,430 --> 00:40:42,490
worked with thousands of people you're

978
00:40:47,070 --> 00:40:44,440
on a daily basis you're connecting with

979
00:40:49,230 --> 00:40:47,080
the other side in the spirit realm and

980
00:40:51,240 --> 00:40:49,240
deceased people all the time what do you

981
00:40:53,220 --> 00:40:51,250
think about the demonic and what do you

982
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:53,230
think about the evil and she says what

983
00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:55,090
other people have told me to she goes I

984
00:40:59,160 --> 00:40:57,370
don't go there she was a couple times

985
00:41:02,490 --> 00:40:59,170
it's a couple times it's kind of poked

986
00:41:06,060 --> 00:41:02,500
in but for the most part I've found that

987
00:41:08,580 --> 00:41:06,070
where I put my energy I create and that

988
00:41:11,700 --> 00:41:08,590
if I don't put my energy there it just

989
00:41:12,110 --> 00:41:11,710
doesn't happen it dissipates in a way

990
00:41:15,740 --> 00:41:12,120
they

991
00:41:18,740 --> 00:41:15,750
what is in my mind is at odds with this

992
00:41:21,650 --> 00:41:18,750
idea that demons fear that which they're

993
00:41:23,990 --> 00:41:21,660
protected and there's this whole magical

994
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:24,000
thing which is so popular now about

995
00:41:29,390 --> 00:41:26,970
here's how you do it and here's you burn

996
00:41:32,720 --> 00:41:29,400
the sage in your thing and all this we

997
00:41:35,630 --> 00:41:32,730
just seems to me I like where Clare is

998
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:35,640
coming from which is to me much more of

999
00:41:40,370 --> 00:41:38,010
a direct experience of our consciousness

1000
00:41:42,500 --> 00:41:40,380
with those extended realms and saying we

1001
00:41:51,230 --> 00:41:42,510
are after all manifesting those so let's

1002
00:41:55,430 --> 00:41:51,240
get a little bit closer to that trust I

1003
00:41:59,090 --> 00:41:55,440
stand by them as personally as more than

1004
00:42:01,460 --> 00:41:59,100
fiction but okay if if your attention is

1005
00:42:04,660 --> 00:42:01,470
on love and harmony and the things that

1006
00:42:07,850 --> 00:42:04,670
you feel expand your quality of life

1007
00:42:11,720 --> 00:42:07,860
then as soon as the person you just

1008
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:11,730
quoted those negative qualities whether

1009
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:13,650
they're whatever shadowy form they are

1010
00:42:20,240 --> 00:42:16,170
they are not going to be a part of your

1011
00:42:23,180 --> 00:42:20,250
life they simply aren't and so there's

1012
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:23,190
an old Vedic saying what you see you

1013
00:42:29,510 --> 00:42:25,170
become what you think you become and if

1014
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:29,520
your attention is riveted on the fact

1015
00:42:34,010 --> 00:42:31,410
that there are demons and and I should

1016
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:34,020
be in contact with them and I should do

1017
00:42:37,730 --> 00:42:36,090
satanic so we know about the satanic

1018
00:42:40,250 --> 00:42:37,740
rituals that go on in the world if my

1019
00:42:43,010 --> 00:42:40,260
attention is there there's going to be a

1020
00:42:44,930 --> 00:42:43,020
response if my obsession let's be clear

1021
00:42:47,270 --> 00:42:44,940
it's not just attention there to draw

1022
00:42:49,370 --> 00:42:47,280
them in to do your bidding like the

1023
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:49,380
tantric thing which I think we can then

1024
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:52,170
also ask why would anyone do that in the

1025
00:42:55,460 --> 00:42:53,610
first place if they have some greater

1026
00:42:58,160 --> 00:42:55,470
spiritual understanding that we are not

1027
00:43:00,260 --> 00:42:58,170
doers here we're just experiences of our

1028
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:00,270
soul what are we trying to get done why

1029
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:01,650
are we trying to do anything for our

1030
00:43:05,750 --> 00:43:03,930
advantage but it also ties back to even

1031
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:05,760
if you're not in that mode it comes back

1032
00:43:10,250 --> 00:43:07,890
to the fear mode which I think so many

1033
00:43:11,870 --> 00:43:10,260
people live in and our religions promote

1034
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:11,880
well you should be afraid of that and

1035
00:43:16,850 --> 00:43:14,130
here let me save you from that and what

1036
00:43:18,980 --> 00:43:16,860
I hear Clare saying is that really you

1037
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:18,990
don't have to engage in that either way

1038
00:43:24,830 --> 00:43:20,850
you can acknowledge the reality of it

1039
00:43:25,190 --> 00:43:24,840
without engaging well the ego protects

1040
00:43:27,829 --> 00:43:25,200
us

1041
00:43:29,930 --> 00:43:27,839
out of its fear let me tell you a quick

1042
00:43:31,550 --> 00:43:29,940
story I'm a friend who's in the he's

1043
00:43:33,349 --> 00:43:31,560
retired but he was a magician and he

1044
00:43:35,359 --> 00:43:33,359
didn't just magically year or three

1045
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:35,369
years as a professional so he goes to

1046
00:43:40,579 --> 00:43:38,130
India and he goes to Bombay to have some

1047
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:40,589
health work done in Ayurveda he goes to

1048
00:43:45,319 --> 00:43:43,410
a clinic and that the by did the doctor

1049
00:43:47,810 --> 00:43:45,329
running the clinics a prominent guy very

1050
00:43:50,450 --> 00:43:47,820
successful guide and big clientele

1051
00:43:53,150 --> 00:43:50,460
international clientele so the guy finds

1052
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:53,160
out that my friend is a magician he says

1053
00:43:57,920 --> 00:43:56,130
would you teach me magic and my friend

1054
00:43:59,450 --> 00:43:57,930
says he'll teach me magic should I'll

1055
00:44:01,579 --> 00:43:59,460
show you some tricks and I want to learn

1056
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:01,589
a lot of magic he said well before I

1057
00:44:06,500 --> 00:44:03,690
teach you why don't you tell me why

1058
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:06,510
you're interested in learning magic and

1059
00:44:12,470 --> 00:44:08,130
the guy says because I want to be a guru

1060
00:44:15,260 --> 00:44:12,480
and my friend says what was learning

1061
00:44:16,730 --> 00:44:15,270
magic had to do with being a group he

1062
00:44:17,990 --> 00:44:16,740
says well if you want to be a guru in

1063
00:44:20,329 --> 00:44:18,000
India you need to know how to do magic

1064
00:44:23,329 --> 00:44:20,339
so you can basically trick people into

1065
00:44:25,700 --> 00:44:23,339
coming your way so there are a lot of

1066
00:44:27,710 --> 00:44:25,710
reasons why people do anything and a lot

1067
00:44:30,500 --> 00:44:27,720
of it has to do with some small

1068
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:30,510
shadowing part of a person's nature that

1069
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:34,650
that is hankering for attention and it's

1070
00:44:39,589 --> 00:44:38,010
at all boils down because of the canopy

1071
00:44:43,460 --> 00:44:39,599
with it Union psychology I don't know

1072
00:44:46,250 --> 00:44:43,470
who addresses it the best but the ego is

1073
00:44:50,240 --> 00:44:46,260
a prime suspect for most of the issues

1074
00:44:53,059 --> 00:44:50,250
we have including fear and and jealousy

1075
00:44:56,059 --> 00:44:53,069
and hatred and he's my enemy and we've

1076
00:44:59,270 --> 00:44:56,069
been kind of duped into this world of

1077
00:45:01,010 --> 00:44:59,280
this illusion we live in of the veil of

1078
00:45:03,290 --> 00:45:01,020
forgetfulness the veil of ignorance that

1079
00:45:06,710 --> 00:45:03,300
we live here the Maya is the term in

1080
00:45:10,069 --> 00:45:06,720
India that's common that that everything

1081
00:45:12,650 --> 00:45:10,079
is outside of ourselves and it's fight

1082
00:45:14,390 --> 00:45:12,660
or flight is syrtis we have to survive

1083
00:45:16,809 --> 00:45:14,400
and struggle we have all these things we

1084
00:45:19,430 --> 00:45:16,819
have to do well if you go to the true

1085
00:45:22,010 --> 00:45:19,440
handful of mystics the true handful of

1086
00:45:25,339 --> 00:45:22,020
sages that record their experience

1087
00:45:27,559 --> 00:45:25,349
they'll say that the shadow they'll say

1088
00:45:30,190 --> 00:45:27,569
that that child molesters that they're

1089
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:30,200
inside me as well I mean everything I

1090
00:45:36,650 --> 00:45:35,130
the the Vedic slogan that is shared with

1091
00:45:38,450 --> 00:45:36,660
the person on when they're on the cusp

1092
00:45:38,980 --> 00:45:38,460
of enlightenment according to tradition

1093
00:45:46,180 --> 00:45:38,990
is

1094
00:45:48,580 --> 00:45:46,190
and if that has any shred of truth to it

1095
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:48,590
the totality means totality it means all

1096
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:51,890
the demons all the genocide Oh maniacs

1097
00:45:58,090 --> 00:45:55,130
all the Satanists they're all part of

1098
00:45:59,740 --> 00:45:58,100
the great self of the universe and so

1099
00:46:02,650 --> 00:45:59,750
how do you reconcile that that's a whole

1100
00:46:05,460 --> 00:46:02,660
topic unto itself I understand that in

1101
00:46:09,070 --> 00:46:05,470
some ways that's an inescapable part of

1102
00:46:11,190 --> 00:46:09,080
our understanding of consciousness even

1103
00:46:14,500 --> 00:46:11,200
from a scientific standpoint it's all

1104
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:14,510
one on the other hand I think it

1105
00:46:19,090 --> 00:46:15,410
obscures

1106
00:46:21,070 --> 00:46:19,100
a greater truth of first of all where we

1107
00:46:23,470 --> 00:46:21,080
live we live in a culture where we

1108
00:46:25,359 --> 00:46:23,480
decide there will be things that are

1109
00:46:28,240 --> 00:46:25,369
acceptable and things that are not

1110
00:46:30,670 --> 00:46:28,250
acceptable and the reason and we also

1111
00:46:32,620 --> 00:46:30,680
live with certain moral principles of

1112
00:46:35,470 --> 00:46:32,630
what we say is acceptable and not

1113
00:46:39,790 --> 00:46:35,480
acceptable for me to say to repeat that

1114
00:46:44,140 --> 00:46:39,800
I just go to some parent whose child has

1115
00:46:46,450 --> 00:46:44,150
been abused I mean they would reject

1116
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:46,460
that immediately that all that

1117
00:46:50,410 --> 00:46:48,650
negativity is also inside you and so

1118
00:46:52,599 --> 00:46:50,420
it's not to me it doesn't really matter

1119
00:46:55,359 --> 00:46:52,609
if they would reject it or not because I

1120
00:46:58,960 --> 00:46:55,369
think my problem with it is that I think

1121
00:47:01,750 --> 00:46:58,970
it obscures a bigger truth and a truth

1122
00:47:04,390 --> 00:47:01,760
that a lot of people seem to be kind of

1123
00:47:06,099 --> 00:47:04,400
missing and that is that you should do

1124
00:47:10,470 --> 00:47:06,109
good things and you should try and avoid

1125
00:47:14,290 --> 00:47:10,480
doing bad things so it's it's not like

1126
00:47:16,630 --> 00:47:14,300
it's all one there really is no good or

1127
00:47:18,340 --> 00:47:16,640
bad well I think most of us haven't

1128
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:18,350
experienced it's very different from

1129
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:20,570
that we have an experience of on a daily

1130
00:47:26,050 --> 00:47:23,450
minute-by-minute experience having the

1131
00:47:28,380 --> 00:47:26,060
mate having to make a choice of saying

1132
00:47:31,240 --> 00:47:28,390
something that isn't quite as hurtful as

1133
00:47:32,980 --> 00:47:31,250
your mother to say six or eight this

1134
00:47:37,030 --> 00:47:32,990
week there's always been something that

1135
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:37,040
my teachers have said is very important

1136
00:47:39,970 --> 00:47:37,970
in your life and you keep around

1137
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:39,980
criticizing other people condemning them

1138
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:41,570
you're condemning yourself you're only

1139
00:47:47,980 --> 00:47:44,210
things you think and say and you are

1140
00:47:50,109 --> 00:47:47,990
just I guess the larger point it's not

1141
00:47:52,030 --> 00:47:50,119
just speak the truth the larger point I

1142
00:47:54,850 --> 00:47:52,040
guess I was making is

1143
00:47:57,040 --> 00:47:54,860
there it seems to me hard for a lot of

1144
00:47:59,680 --> 00:47:57,050
folks and I've spoken to bunch of really

1145
00:48:01,540 --> 00:47:59,690
intelligent people on this show who have

1146
00:48:04,720 --> 00:48:01,550
a problem with the idea that there's a

1147
00:48:06,730 --> 00:48:04,730
moral imperative that that little angel

1148
00:48:09,340 --> 00:48:06,740
on the shoulder devil on the shoulder

1149
00:48:11,140 --> 00:48:09,350
thing is kind of more real in a way that

1150
00:48:13,510 --> 00:48:11,150
we all know it's real but don't really

1151
00:48:14,890 --> 00:48:13,520
want to acknowledge that it's real so

1152
00:48:16,810 --> 00:48:14,900
that's what comes through from the

1153
00:48:18,910 --> 00:48:16,820
near-death experience Sciences they come

1154
00:48:21,310 --> 00:48:18,920
back and go oh yeah it is you are

1155
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:21,320
supposed to do good things bad things

1156
00:48:25,930 --> 00:48:24,170
there is a light there is love there is

1157
00:48:27,910 --> 00:48:25,940
a hierarchy of consciousness and there

1158
00:48:29,500 --> 00:48:27,920
is a moral imperative and here's my

1159
00:48:30,850 --> 00:48:29,510
point that I guess I'd pull you into

1160
00:48:33,430 --> 00:48:30,860
responding to because I'm not really

1161
00:48:35,710 --> 00:48:33,440
challenging any Steve I think you're

1162
00:48:37,570 --> 00:48:35,720
down with this but our culture we've

1163
00:48:39,370 --> 00:48:37,580
lost that I mean again when I talk to

1164
00:48:41,770 --> 00:48:39,380
people in religious studies they'd go

1165
00:48:44,620 --> 00:48:41,780
the exact opposite of that they say of

1166
00:48:46,870 --> 00:48:44,630
course there isn't a moral imperative of

1167
00:48:47,980 --> 00:48:46,880
course there isn't a judgment between

1168
00:48:50,650 --> 00:48:47,990
right and wrong

1169
00:48:53,740 --> 00:48:50,660
there is only relativism and I want to

1170
00:48:55,240 --> 00:48:53,750
drive a stake in this to say I challenge

1171
00:48:57,940 --> 00:48:55,250
whether or not that's true I'm not

1172
00:48:59,710 --> 00:48:57,950
standing on a pulpit to argue with I'm

1173
00:49:01,840 --> 00:48:59,720
saying scientifically you guys are men

1174
00:49:04,810 --> 00:49:01,850
of logic men of reason none of science I

1175
00:49:07,750 --> 00:49:04,820
think you're misinterpreting the data in

1176
00:49:10,990 --> 00:49:07,760
a fundamental way yes there is a moral

1177
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:11,000
imperative well I can come back to that

1178
00:49:15,670 --> 00:49:13,330
comment I made about my definition of

1179
00:49:19,030 --> 00:49:15,680
evil in the very beginning and that is

1180
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:19,040
the act of denying another person their

1181
00:49:23,710 --> 00:49:21,170
right of freedom they're free well but

1182
00:49:26,890 --> 00:49:23,720
let's look at an analogy okay two adults

1183
00:49:28,570 --> 00:49:26,900
say they've just met mate guyhnic the

1184
00:49:30,700 --> 00:49:28,580
woman they stayed attract let's go to

1185
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:30,710
the hotel and have some fun okay is that

1186
00:49:34,690 --> 00:49:32,930
equal maybe to a Christian I don't know

1187
00:49:37,420 --> 00:49:34,700
but no it's not evil because there was

1188
00:49:39,490 --> 00:49:37,430
an agreement to the two people meet

1189
00:49:39,940 --> 00:49:39,500
again and it's a different context in

1190
00:49:43,180 --> 00:49:39,950
the manse

1191
00:49:45,670 --> 00:49:43,190
starts to abused her is that evil in my

1192
00:49:48,970 --> 00:49:45,680
from my definition yes because he is

1193
00:49:50,770 --> 00:49:48,980
denying her or right of free will she's

1194
00:49:52,980 --> 00:49:50,780
not agreed to this the first situation

1195
00:49:56,380 --> 00:49:52,990
it was consensual the second situation

1196
00:49:58,870 --> 00:49:56,390
he was imposing his will on another

1197
00:50:01,690 --> 00:49:58,880
person so it seems like a simplistic

1198
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:01,700
definition but it really works quite

1199
00:50:04,849 --> 00:50:03,650
well and a lot of so far I haven't found

1200
00:50:07,130 --> 00:50:04,859
a place where it didn't

1201
00:50:08,859 --> 00:50:07,140
you're a lot smarter guy than me would

1202
00:50:11,660 --> 00:50:08,869
probably tell me where that breaks down

1203
00:50:16,519 --> 00:50:11,670
but for me it is it certainly breaks

1204
00:50:18,380 --> 00:50:16,529
down to business and politics it well

1205
00:50:20,539 --> 00:50:18,390
if according to their rules of the game

1206
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:20,549
but it but still it doesn't necessarily

1207
00:50:26,209 --> 00:50:24,690
mean that it's not true I'm not saying

1208
00:50:29,209 --> 00:50:26,219
it's not true to say it it breaks how I

1209
00:50:33,709 --> 00:50:29,219
break yeah well okay and I don't want to

1210
00:50:35,479 --> 00:50:33,719
toot the horn of of Vedic references so

1211
00:50:38,900 --> 00:50:35,489
awful much I don't think I have but

1212
00:50:42,289 --> 00:50:38,910
according to Vedic history we are in the

1213
00:50:44,209 --> 00:50:42,299
throes of Kali Yuga Kali Yuga is called

1214
00:50:48,589 --> 00:50:44,219
the age of ignorance the dark ages of

1215
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:48,599
black age of mankind 432,000 years to

1216
00:50:51,650 --> 00:50:49,890
find if I have a fight and there are

1217
00:50:55,190 --> 00:50:51,660
other ages that are highly enlightened

1218
00:50:57,699 --> 00:50:55,200
and and less negativity less stress less

1219
00:51:01,059 --> 00:50:57,709
evil one of the things that are

1220
00:51:05,859 --> 00:51:01,069
highlighted by Kali Yuga is that

1221
00:51:08,900 --> 00:51:05,869
governments and religions are run by

1222
00:51:10,339 --> 00:51:08,910
evil minded people okay so please tell

1223
00:51:13,130 --> 00:51:10,349
me in history when they weren't please

1224
00:51:17,660 --> 00:51:13,140
tell me how bengis Khan was that's at

1225
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:17,670
least a short very short standard

1226
00:51:22,430 --> 00:51:20,130
history okay I just I'm just finishing

1227
00:51:24,140 --> 00:51:22,440
up a film with a guy I've had on the

1228
00:51:26,449 --> 00:51:24,150
show his guy his name is Bruce Fenton

1229
00:51:28,870 --> 00:51:26,459
and what I love about Bruce Fenton is he

1230
00:51:31,309 --> 00:51:28,880
has some scientific evidence like

1231
00:51:32,779 --> 00:51:31,319
tektites from Australia and stuff like

1232
00:51:35,329 --> 00:51:32,789
that that match up with a story that

1233
00:51:37,489 --> 00:51:35,339
says 780 thousand years ago on the

1234
00:51:39,890 --> 00:51:37,499
planet there were these events and they

1235
00:51:41,359 --> 00:51:39,900
were very violent kind of a war of the

1236
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:41,369
gods thing so you can believe that or

1237
00:51:45,109 --> 00:51:42,930
not believe that but what I particularly

1238
00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:45,119
like about that is that it kind of

1239
00:51:51,620 --> 00:51:48,690
suggested I mean I can I can't

1240
00:51:55,009 --> 00:51:51,630
but not point to any time in my history

1241
00:51:57,140 --> 00:51:55,019
of my long getting to be longer life or

1242
00:51:59,630 --> 00:51:57,150
anything I read in history where there

1243
00:52:01,699 --> 00:51:59,640
was this time when it was so

1244
00:52:04,729 --> 00:52:01,709
dramatically different in terms of that

1245
00:52:06,170 --> 00:52:04,739
I don't know I love the Vedic study but

1246
00:52:10,130 --> 00:52:06,180
I gotta call on some of that

1247
00:52:11,630 --> 00:52:10,140
okay oh I mean no when is a time when is

1248
00:52:14,229 --> 00:52:11,640
a time when when there was this golden

1249
00:52:18,420 --> 00:52:14,239
it golden age I'd like to know about it

1250
00:52:20,339 --> 00:52:18,430
the term for his side she probably

1251
00:52:24,030 --> 00:52:20,349
show you familiar I'm sure Yogananda

1252
00:52:26,790 --> 00:52:24,040
talked about it and if it was real if it

1253
00:52:30,270 --> 00:52:26,800
existed it was a time when human life

1254
00:52:32,910 --> 00:52:30,280
was thousand two thousand years there

1255
00:52:35,940 --> 00:52:32,920
which is absolutely crucial in some ways

1256
00:52:39,270 --> 00:52:35,950
because our lives now our sews are so

1257
00:52:41,309 --> 00:52:39,280
short that a lot of the sun's cars a lot

1258
00:52:45,329 --> 00:52:41,319
of it events that happen in our life

1259
00:52:48,359 --> 00:52:45,339
that maybe karmically driven we have no

1260
00:52:50,790 --> 00:52:48,369
chance to connect the dots that okay I

1261
00:52:54,559 --> 00:52:50,800
am suffering from this disease based on

1262
00:53:00,240 --> 00:52:54,569
some action I performed in the past and

1263
00:53:02,849 --> 00:53:00,250
if we don't accept that as a viable

1264
00:53:05,609 --> 00:53:02,859
principle of nature then basically we

1265
00:53:08,099 --> 00:53:05,619
don't have a fair universe I mean how do

1266
00:53:12,420 --> 00:53:08,109
you explain to the mother my child died

1267
00:53:14,910 --> 00:53:12,430
and you know at six months of age what

1268
00:53:17,609 --> 00:53:14,920
the deaf child do to deserve to die if

1269
00:53:20,970 --> 00:53:17,619
you don't take pullback and take a lot

1270
00:53:23,819 --> 00:53:20,980
larger broader perspective and include

1271
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:23,829
past lives and include the journey of

1272
00:53:27,750 --> 00:53:26,410
the soul that's basically gone on for

1273
00:53:31,289 --> 00:53:27,760
hundreds of thousands of years

1274
00:53:35,730 --> 00:53:31,299
you can't possibly come to impeccable or

1275
00:53:37,799 --> 00:53:35,740
a decision on that death that seems fair

1276
00:53:40,020 --> 00:53:37,809
that seems to have an innate goodness

1277
00:53:43,109 --> 00:53:40,030
behind it you can't but if you can

1278
00:53:44,670 --> 00:53:43,119
understand and physics is telling us

1279
00:53:48,270 --> 00:53:44,680
that there's an equal of reaction for

1280
00:53:50,069 --> 00:53:48,280
every action years Jesus said as you sow

1281
00:53:52,079 --> 00:53:50,079
so shall you reap though I know you're

1282
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:52,089
not high in those kind of quotes it

1283
00:53:56,220 --> 00:53:54,490
seems like but they keep coming up and

1284
00:53:58,530 --> 00:53:56,230
they keep coming up and Buddhist context

1285
00:54:02,339 --> 00:53:58,540
they come up and you know when you see

1286
00:54:05,849 --> 00:54:02,349
kind of archetypal truths or what might

1287
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:05,859
be truth and then you say well maybe

1288
00:54:12,780 --> 00:54:08,530
maybe let's hope that the universe has

1289
00:54:17,190 --> 00:54:12,790
some justice souter otherwise I mean how

1290
00:54:21,630 --> 00:54:17,200
do you feel about no I think I thought

1291
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:21,640
in my league here should I should leave

1292
00:54:26,220 --> 00:54:24,010
my friend if anything I am way out of my

1293
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:26,230
league so don't ever say that and we're

1294
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:29,650
just having fun yes it's not like we're

1295
00:54:32,039 --> 00:54:31,210
really going to solve those kind of

1296
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:32,049
things

1297
00:54:39,439 --> 00:54:35,249
I do kind of and I came I guess sound

1298
00:54:42,209 --> 00:54:39,449
argumentative I don't know why I do but

1299
00:54:44,429 --> 00:54:42,219
you're pulling out good points and I and

1300
00:54:47,609 --> 00:54:44,439
I you know recently feel good about it

1301
00:54:51,390 --> 00:54:47,619
you know we've got to basically the

1302
00:54:54,900 --> 00:54:51,400
whole from my experience now I'm not

1303
00:54:55,859 --> 00:54:54,910
saying I had death experiences that sort

1304
00:54:58,559 --> 00:54:55,869
of thing but Mike

1305
00:55:03,599 --> 00:54:58,569
my understanding is because I've done

1306
00:55:05,819 --> 00:55:03,609
now 49 years of twice-a-day meditation

1307
00:55:09,569 --> 00:55:05,829
without you know really ever missing one

1308
00:55:11,189 --> 00:55:09,579
is that the birth that we go through we

1309
00:55:13,229 --> 00:55:11,199
come into this life is more of

1310
00:55:15,689 --> 00:55:13,239
forgetting and a falling asleep and

1311
00:55:17,759 --> 00:55:15,699
death is more awakening and expansion

1312
00:55:20,789 --> 00:55:17,769
where you're actually far more aware of

1313
00:55:22,229 --> 00:55:20,799
what you are as a soul and everything is

1314
00:55:25,049 --> 00:55:22,239
forgotten when you come in and you have

1315
00:55:25,859 --> 00:55:25,059
to figure it out and so that's why we're

1316
00:55:28,620 --> 00:55:25,869
having these kind of conversations

1317
00:55:30,179 --> 00:55:28,630
because we're trying to figure the whole

1318
00:55:32,609 --> 00:55:30,189
game we're in a game we're in a

1319
00:55:34,469 --> 00:55:32,619
schoolhouse which were so many fun

1320
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:34,479
analogies that people use they beat them

1321
00:55:38,189 --> 00:55:36,249
to death baby but we're trying to figure

1322
00:55:39,989 --> 00:55:38,199
out the game the rules of the game so we

1323
00:55:42,449 --> 00:55:39,999
can progress on to the next game which

1324
00:55:46,380 --> 00:55:42,459
might be a little more loving and fun so

1325
00:55:49,410 --> 00:55:46,390
I can't really say that this

1326
00:55:52,439 --> 00:55:49,420
civilization 600,000 years ago where

1327
00:55:56,189 --> 00:55:52,449
purportedly humans were telepathic and

1328
00:55:57,890 --> 00:55:56,199
lived 2,000 years and kumbaya I loved

1329
00:56:00,749 --> 00:55:57,900
each other I mean how can I prove that

1330
00:56:03,539 --> 00:56:00,759
through hard science I can't listen we

1331
00:56:07,339 --> 00:56:03,549
can't but I don't think that it's all

1332
00:56:10,429 --> 00:56:07,349
always fairy tales and legends and and

1333
00:56:13,109 --> 00:56:10,439
symbolic stuff I think there there's

1334
00:56:15,599 --> 00:56:13,119
archetypal stuff that exists and and

1335
00:56:17,999 --> 00:56:15,609
that exists for a reason because there

1336
00:56:21,299 --> 00:56:18,009
is something in history that has some

1337
00:56:24,989 --> 00:56:21,309
valid basis to reason why these myths

1338
00:56:26,549 --> 00:56:24,999
persist whether it's precisely a great

1339
00:56:28,979 --> 00:56:26,559
floods the great floods that keep

1340
00:56:30,839 --> 00:56:28,989
happening unless we I think by the way

1341
00:56:33,779 --> 00:56:30,849
in my personal opinion word up one of

1342
00:56:34,949 --> 00:56:33,789
those archetypal transition points even

1343
00:56:38,459 --> 00:56:34,959
right now

1344
00:56:40,289 --> 00:56:38,469
you'll see damn it damn it damn it Steve

1345
00:56:42,080 --> 00:56:40,299
I was just about to agree with you then

1346
00:56:45,140 --> 00:56:42,090
you have not said that I said

1347
00:56:47,870 --> 00:56:45,150
garbage okay well I was really into the

1348
00:56:51,350 --> 00:56:47,880
New Age come by us kind of thing I mean

1349
00:56:53,330 --> 00:56:51,360
I trying to be discriminative and see

1350
00:56:54,530 --> 00:56:53,340
what there's some brilliant people out

1351
00:56:56,720 --> 00:56:54,540
there but there's also much

1352
00:56:57,560 --> 00:56:56,730
announcements well Mike I guess and

1353
00:57:00,800 --> 00:56:57,570
again

1354
00:57:03,380 --> 00:57:00,810
framing this up as trying to nudge a

1355
00:57:06,740 --> 00:57:03,390
little bit closer to the truth and part

1356
00:57:09,670 --> 00:57:06,750
of that process is cleaning out the non

1357
00:57:15,020 --> 00:57:09,680
truth so I hammer pretty hard on the

1358
00:57:17,180 --> 00:57:15,030
social science woke miss folks in you

1359
00:57:19,220 --> 00:57:17,190
know comparative religion but it's just

1360
00:57:20,810 --> 00:57:19,230
funny that that's been our best and

1361
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:20,820
brightest approach to this or the

1362
00:57:27,050 --> 00:57:23,370
religious approach to it but I do also

1363
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:27,060
have to kind of call some of this stuff

1364
00:57:31,910 --> 00:57:29,850
that falls into the non-dual or even the

1365
00:57:33,740 --> 00:57:31,920
New Age community what and one of my

1366
00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:33,750
triggers for me is whatever would

1367
00:57:38,570 --> 00:57:36,210
someone suggest that we are in a special

1368
00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:38,580
time I think we're pointing towards this

1369
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:40,290
transition and again I mentioned our

1370
00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:45,690
mutual friend Rick who I do really

1371
00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:48,330
appreciate so much Rick from Buddha at

1372
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:50,130
the gas pump but we did a series of

1373
00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:52,650
interviews on global warming and and

1374
00:57:58,700 --> 00:57:56,250
Rick despite all that still sighs me all

1375
00:58:01,220 --> 00:57:58,710
this nonsense about global warming it

1376
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:01,230
becomes a religious thing and I dare say

1377
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:04,170
I was a little bit worried that you were

1378
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:06,570
going down that same path in the book

1379
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:09,930
the tale of Himalayan Yogi's when there

1380
00:58:17,300 --> 00:58:13,410
is that nature will unleash her fury if

1381
00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:17,310
man also the book is kind of I don't

1382
00:58:20,390 --> 00:58:18,570
want to say it's sexist because I don't

1383
00:58:22,610 --> 00:58:20,400
like going down that whole path but in a

1384
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:22,620
way there's a lot of man this and a

1385
00:58:28,340 --> 00:58:25,290
woman playing her traditional role but

1386
00:58:30,950 --> 00:58:28,350
nature will unleash her fury if man does

1387
00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:30,960
not mend his ways she appeals to you for

1388
00:58:35,270 --> 00:58:33,330
help man has wrought this evil and man

1389
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:35,280
must correct it if we enter they

1390
00:58:40,520 --> 00:58:37,890
intervene then man will not learn his

1391
00:58:42,890 --> 00:58:40,530
lesson you are like a seeding to the

1392
00:58:44,930 --> 00:58:42,900
forest you must right this wrong

1393
00:58:48,140 --> 00:58:44,940
environmental wrong for if it persists

1394
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:48,150
the mountains will bury the men who live

1395
00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:51,210
on it I don't know do you really do you

1396
00:58:55,330 --> 00:58:54,570
think the the the Yogi's in the sky are

1397
00:58:57,430 --> 00:58:55,340
agreeing

1398
00:59:01,360 --> 00:58:57,440
varam analyst and what would they feel

1399
00:59:03,370 --> 00:59:01,370
about the latest move towards climate

1400
00:59:06,040 --> 00:59:03,380
change or any of the rest of this do we

1401
00:59:08,530 --> 00:59:06,050
really want to go there climate change

1402
00:59:13,300 --> 00:59:08,540
is one of the contentious points in my

1403
00:59:16,780 --> 00:59:13,310
household because I know my wife is very

1404
00:59:18,910 --> 00:59:16,790
sensitive to Fabian lyrics discussing

1405
00:59:20,500 --> 00:59:18,920
with you those of course I think some of

1406
00:59:23,950 --> 00:59:20,510
them came from a character in the book

1407
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:23,960
called yogi watch am i right maybe you

1408
00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:25,250
don't remember I can't remember okay

1409
00:59:30,100 --> 00:59:27,890
that's fine but can you put him back up

1410
00:59:33,580 --> 00:59:30,110
there it's like maybe address a little

1411
00:59:36,970 --> 00:59:33,590
bit so as if fine I think if I made

1412
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:36,980
those statements in a nonfiction context

1413
00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:40,490
I think he could hammer me harder there

1414
00:59:46,570 --> 00:59:42,290
are no definitely definitely fair enough

1415
00:59:49,660 --> 00:59:46,580
yes yes fair enough but the sexist side

1416
00:59:52,450 --> 00:59:49,670
of it I tried to be true to the time and

1417
00:59:56,020 --> 00:59:52,460
believe me this is muslim-dominated

1418
00:59:58,300 --> 00:59:56,030
Indian culture which was probably 400

1419
01:00:00,700 --> 00:59:58,310
years ago which is it tried to be mean

1420
01:00:05,130 --> 01:00:00,710
this was not a in equal rights culture

1421
01:00:09,100 --> 01:00:05,140
and I had it when I gave a book opening

1422
01:00:11,860 --> 01:00:09,110
promotion from signing talk my first one

1423
01:00:14,590 --> 01:00:11,870
the lady came in and said I read it I

1424
01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:14,600
feel like the trash it was trash and I

1425
01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:16,730
said we'll give me a little bit more of

1426
01:00:23,890 --> 01:00:19,490
a collaboration satisfaction you trashed

1427
01:00:26,170 --> 01:00:23,900
women I said man I'm so I apologized but

1428
01:00:30,070 --> 01:00:26,180
please let me give a context here we're

1429
01:00:33,340 --> 01:00:30,080
talking about 16th century Mughal India

1430
01:00:35,410 --> 01:00:33,350
and this is just this is not the 21st

1431
01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:35,420
century here America and I just if I

1432
01:00:42,370 --> 01:00:40,130
were to be thinking along those lines I

1433
01:00:44,620 --> 01:00:42,380
mean the the Emperor's maybe at that

1434
01:00:46,600 --> 01:00:44,630
time adherents with 2,000 women and from

1435
01:00:48,100 --> 01:00:46,610
all over the world this is a fact and I

1436
01:00:50,320 --> 01:00:48,110
don't know if I want to make it somewhat

1437
01:00:52,720 --> 01:00:50,330
historically accurate I have to be true

1438
01:00:55,210 --> 01:00:52,730
to and I chose that time for a reason

1439
01:00:59,020 --> 01:00:55,220
for many reasons I feel like current

1440
01:01:00,730 --> 01:00:59,030
India is so far licked oh look so far

1441
01:01:02,110 --> 01:01:00,740
away from the whole yogic tradition I

1442
01:01:05,140 --> 01:01:02,120
won't even bother with trying to present

1443
01:01:08,650 --> 01:01:05,150
that as a context for a story but at the

1444
01:01:10,809 --> 01:01:08,660
time that I chose it was a time

1445
01:01:14,470 --> 01:01:10,819
normos a pulitzer prize-winning

1446
01:01:17,710 --> 01:01:14,480
historian a guy named will durant wrote

1447
01:01:21,279 --> 01:01:17,720
at the moment treatment of the sultanate

1448
01:01:25,660 --> 01:01:21,289
treatment of native india reproduced the

1449
01:01:28,390 --> 01:01:25,670
greatest genocide in human history 885

1450
01:01:29,140 --> 01:01:28,400
eighty million people were exterminated

1451
01:01:32,109 --> 01:01:29,150
one way or another

1452
01:01:33,970 --> 01:01:32,119
over the centuries of global rule so i

1453
01:01:38,109 --> 01:01:33,980
chose the time that had enormous

1454
01:01:39,339 --> 01:01:38,119
implications conflict within the culture

1455
01:01:41,349 --> 01:01:39,349
and they did for reason so there are a

1456
01:01:45,190 --> 01:01:41,359
lot of things was it was a militaristic

1457
01:01:46,809 --> 01:01:45,200
period of time the emperor had an army

1458
01:01:48,760 --> 01:01:46,819
that i included many some a forty

1459
01:01:52,930 --> 01:01:48,770
percent of the population it was a very

1460
01:01:54,099 --> 01:01:52,940
chauvinistic situation so I realized as

1461
01:01:56,079 --> 01:01:54,109
I was writing well this isn't really

1462
01:01:58,839 --> 01:01:56,089
going to go down with a lot of American

1463
01:02:00,970 --> 01:01:58,849
people were interested in talking about

1464
01:02:03,370 --> 01:02:00,980
the Equality of the sexes and I I mean

1465
01:02:05,109 --> 01:02:03,380
you could have prison I like about Mike

1466
01:02:06,760 --> 01:02:05,119
because my true position on this but I

1467
01:02:10,089 --> 01:02:06,770
decide okay if I'm gonna write a story I

1468
01:02:13,450 --> 01:02:10,099
better be true to so I have trying to

1469
01:02:15,640 --> 01:02:13,460
pick an era I understand I understand

1470
01:02:18,579 --> 01:02:15,650
both sides done I think you're adding a

1471
01:02:21,940 --> 01:02:18,589
lot to it I am NOT a feminist I think

1472
01:02:24,730 --> 01:02:21,950
that is such a rat hole that they've

1473
01:02:31,660 --> 01:02:24,740
shoved people into and especially women

1474
01:02:33,670 --> 01:02:31,670
and talk about it's all that we're stuck

1475
01:02:36,279 --> 01:02:33,680
in this game and it's individual we have

1476
01:02:38,559 --> 01:02:36,289
to individually here I guess is gonna be

1477
01:02:40,089 --> 01:02:38,569
my point because at the same time and I

1478
01:02:43,150 --> 01:02:40,099
think I know from talked to you before

1479
01:02:44,410 --> 01:02:43,160
you to acknowledges it goes back to the

1480
01:02:45,910 --> 01:02:44,420
historical thing we do have to

1481
01:02:48,700 --> 01:02:45,920
acknowledge and I have to acknowledge

1482
01:02:50,890 --> 01:02:48,710
with my my two girls I have two girls

1483
01:02:54,819 --> 01:02:50,900
and two boys that hey there's a reality

1484
01:02:56,859 --> 01:02:54,829
to that when certainly when my mom was

1485
01:02:58,720 --> 01:02:56,869
coming up there was there was not that

1486
01:03:02,079 --> 01:02:58,730
kind of equality that we kind of take

1487
01:03:04,480 --> 01:03:02,089
for granted so hats off to some of that

1488
01:03:05,890 --> 01:03:04,490
social change that came about from that

1489
01:03:07,299 --> 01:03:05,900
woman who came up and threw it in the

1490
01:03:09,910 --> 01:03:07,309
trash do you think she would have been a

1491
01:03:11,650 --> 01:03:09,920
little bit sued or do you think you

1492
01:03:13,269 --> 01:03:11,660
could have written a page or two at the

1493
01:03:15,400 --> 01:03:13,279
beginning and just explained what you

1494
01:03:17,980 --> 01:03:15,410
just explained to me and maybe that

1495
01:03:19,779 --> 01:03:17,990
would have I could in the preface I

1496
01:03:21,599 --> 01:03:19,789
definitely couldn't I mean I have some

1497
01:03:23,789 --> 01:03:21,609
thought

1498
01:03:26,849 --> 01:03:23,799
pretty strong women in the story maybe

1499
01:03:29,549 --> 01:03:26,859
it's not seen that way but in my family

1500
01:03:31,710 --> 01:03:29,559
this is just to decide when I first got

1501
01:03:33,569 --> 01:03:31,720
married I very quickly realized that

1502
01:03:36,509 --> 01:03:33,579
there were there was a spouse and that

1503
01:03:38,700 --> 01:03:36,519
was substantially further down the

1504
01:03:40,470 --> 01:03:38,710
spiritual path than I was and we were

1505
01:03:42,509 --> 01:03:40,480
talking about spiritual things one day

1506
01:03:46,140 --> 01:03:42,519
and my wife's name is booming which is

1507
01:03:48,049 --> 01:03:46,150
an Indian name she said Jesus Steve you

1508
01:03:51,210 --> 01:03:48,059
really don't know anything do you I

1509
01:03:53,759 --> 01:03:51,220
agree Mike I think you could say that

1510
01:03:57,960 --> 01:03:53,769
about anybody I mean I got come to that

1511
01:03:59,460 --> 01:03:57,970
realization every day so I I suspect she

1512
01:04:01,109 --> 01:03:59,470
doesn't really know anything either that

1513
01:04:03,690 --> 01:04:01,119
seems to be the common thread that we

1514
01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:03,700
all have going through life maybe he met

1515
01:04:10,620 --> 01:04:07,930
some guys at the mountains there in the

1516
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:10,630
the one guy that you put the clone stuff

1517
01:04:15,059 --> 01:04:12,970
that was sort of like are Yogi's green

1518
01:04:18,930 --> 01:04:15,069
that was the Yogi Bhajan eye I actually

1519
01:04:21,660 --> 01:04:18,940
his prototype or his real person was Kay

1520
01:04:24,690 --> 01:04:21,670
Shiva now I read a book that was not

1521
01:04:27,989 --> 01:04:24,700
fiction and if you want what I what I

1522
01:04:30,299 --> 01:04:27,999
really stand for in principles that

1523
01:04:31,829 --> 01:04:30,309
would be I would indict diverge from

1524
01:04:33,989 --> 01:04:31,839
that at all what I what I stand for

1525
01:04:36,150 --> 01:04:33,999
being my memoir I wrote a seven-year the

1526
01:04:36,539 --> 01:04:36,160
story might travel a lot of Indian

1527
01:04:39,329 --> 01:04:36,549
called

1528
01:04:41,940 --> 01:04:39,339
India mirror of truth in that book I met

1529
01:04:44,220 --> 01:04:41,950
somebody always we talked and talked

1530
01:04:50,099 --> 01:04:44,230
about at the beginning of the podcast

1531
01:04:52,079 --> 01:04:50,109
but Acacia book was far and away someone

1532
01:04:54,779 --> 01:04:52,089
that I had never encountered anywhere

1533
01:04:58,170 --> 01:04:54,789
else I met him up above reaching under

1534
01:05:01,950 --> 01:04:58,180
public Jojo Jamaat and I modeled yogi

1535
01:05:05,249 --> 01:05:01,960
Raj the ageless yogi in the novel after

1536
01:05:07,890 --> 01:05:05,259
him because he he's been written about

1537
01:05:11,989 --> 01:05:07,900
many many times including by Yogananda

1538
01:05:14,220 --> 01:05:11,999
and I just feel like that individual

1539
01:05:16,229 --> 01:05:14,230
from my limited point of view was the

1540
01:05:17,849 --> 01:05:16,239
pinnacle of what I would like to aspire

1541
01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:17,859
to become and I don't I know it's not

1542
01:05:21,779 --> 01:05:19,450
going to happen but that's sort of like

1543
01:05:22,799 --> 01:05:21,789
wow that's a role model if role models

1544
01:05:26,670 --> 01:05:22,809
could exist

1545
01:05:29,190 --> 01:05:26,680
case your life is the name I used in in

1546
01:05:31,880 --> 01:05:29,200
the other book that's really cool Steve

1547
01:05:34,499 --> 01:05:31,890
and that adds again this level of

1548
01:05:35,549 --> 01:05:34,509
realness to this whole account that

1549
01:05:37,349 --> 01:05:35,559
we're talking about even

1550
01:05:39,469 --> 01:05:37,359
super gracious and spending your time

1551
01:05:43,799 --> 01:05:39,479
with us tell you what in one last

1552
01:05:45,779 --> 01:05:43,809
question / topic area from the book has

1553
01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:45,789
to do with this idea that really we

1554
01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:47,410
could have started with this but I felt

1555
01:05:53,579 --> 01:05:49,930
like we'd never get past it and that is

1556
01:05:57,089 --> 01:05:53,589
the question of what is real and I have

1557
01:05:58,620 --> 01:05:57,099
the quote up on the screen and I forget

1558
01:06:01,650 --> 01:05:58,630
which character does I apologize but

1559
01:06:04,259 --> 01:06:01,660
says baba did we visit a dream world or

1560
01:06:07,609 --> 01:06:04,269
was it real that was Gautama that

1561
01:06:11,719 --> 01:06:07,619
Govinda the protagonist prince who is

1562
01:06:16,140 --> 01:06:11,729
studying under Papa Shankara

1563
01:06:20,249 --> 01:06:16,150
and has experienced hell has experienced

1564
01:06:21,779 --> 01:06:20,259
some just horrific unimaginable things

1565
01:06:23,309 --> 01:06:21,789
that we hear about over and over again

1566
01:06:26,299 --> 01:06:23,319
in different ways I mean some people

1567
01:06:29,549 --> 01:06:26,309
seek this out through different

1568
01:06:32,069 --> 01:06:29,559
practices magical practices other people

1569
01:06:33,660 --> 01:06:32,079
encounter it spontaneously through

1570
01:06:35,969 --> 01:06:33,670
near-death experiences

1571
01:06:38,099 --> 01:06:35,979
some people come encounter it through

1572
01:06:39,479 --> 01:06:38,109
drug experiences so it's really

1573
01:06:42,029 --> 01:06:39,489
interesting and I really want to

1574
01:06:43,859 --> 01:06:42,039
understand what you understand about

1575
01:06:46,169 --> 01:06:43,869
these other realms but I also want to

1576
01:06:48,979 --> 01:06:46,179
understand again the deeper part that we

1577
01:06:52,679 --> 01:06:48,989
asked because the reply to that I

1578
01:06:54,749 --> 01:06:52,689
Shankar Baba is did we visit a

1579
01:06:58,259 --> 01:06:54,759
dreamworld or a real world and he says a

1580
01:07:00,989 --> 01:06:58,269
little of each but understand the

1581
01:07:02,549 --> 01:07:00,999
suffering is real I think that's such a

1582
01:07:05,910 --> 01:07:02,559
great point on what you de lab rate on

1583
01:07:09,150 --> 01:07:05,920
the seven hells are not God's creation

1584
01:07:10,979 --> 01:07:09,160
the evil in men has created these routes

1585
01:07:14,370 --> 01:07:10,989
I could pick that apart I'm not gonna

1586
01:07:18,239 --> 01:07:14,380
men act impulsively due to their

1587
01:07:20,459 --> 01:07:18,249
accumulated Sun scara's so talk about

1588
01:07:23,779 --> 01:07:20,469
what's real I came from with this was

1589
01:07:26,099 --> 01:07:23,789
halfway through my seven years in India

1590
01:07:28,529 --> 01:07:26,109
when I was teaching meditation to

1591
01:07:31,620 --> 01:07:28,539
corporate people I had a health issue

1592
01:07:35,249 --> 01:07:31,630
and it required some minor surgery but

1593
01:07:38,279 --> 01:07:35,259
it required me to be put under under

1594
01:07:40,199 --> 01:07:38,289
presentation they put me out and when I

1595
01:07:42,059 --> 01:07:40,209
came back to consciousness whatever

1596
01:07:46,289 --> 01:07:42,069
number of hours after I put under

1597
01:07:48,710 --> 01:07:46,299
general anesthesia internally I had an

1598
01:07:51,680 --> 01:07:48,720
experience of many many dimensions

1599
01:07:54,020 --> 01:07:51,690
of the universe I will say this is a

1600
01:07:55,640 --> 01:07:54,030
very elusive now someone say or you

1601
01:07:57,410 --> 01:07:55,650
could be experiencing the side effects

1602
01:08:00,890 --> 01:07:57,420
of the drug who knows and III don't know

1603
01:08:03,260 --> 01:08:00,900
but I experienced progression from a

1604
01:08:05,240 --> 01:08:03,270
very low low what I would say low

1605
01:08:07,250 --> 01:08:05,250
vibrational thing where I saw and

1606
01:08:08,569 --> 01:08:07,260
experienced some people I would never

1607
01:08:10,540 --> 01:08:08,579
really want to interact with I would

1608
01:08:12,800 --> 01:08:10,550
just call them demons or dark beings

1609
01:08:14,809 --> 01:08:12,810
okay for lack of a better word

1610
01:08:17,930 --> 01:08:14,819
Raksha so this would be a Hindu turn and

1611
01:08:20,420 --> 01:08:17,940
then it progressively my vibration my

1612
01:08:22,939 --> 01:08:20,430
consciousness started to lift out of

1613
01:08:24,559 --> 01:08:22,949
that deep funk and I went up and up and

1614
01:08:28,579 --> 01:08:24,569
up but by the time I went through these

1615
01:08:31,610 --> 01:08:28,589
different dimensional experiences if you

1616
01:08:33,769 --> 01:08:31,620
will I was in a very angelic kind of

1617
01:08:37,220 --> 01:08:33,779
experience where I was hearing

1618
01:08:39,579 --> 01:08:37,230
I'm not saying harps because I'm a

1619
01:08:43,280 --> 01:08:39,589
really good to go but the music was

1620
01:08:45,650 --> 01:08:43,290
celestial it was just it was just there

1621
01:08:47,150 --> 01:08:45,660
throughout the realm I was in it was

1622
01:08:52,249 --> 01:08:47,160
like it wasn't coming from speaker it

1623
01:08:54,670 --> 01:08:52,259
was just pervasive and it was like times

1624
01:08:56,860 --> 01:08:54,680
10 better than their best citizens

1625
01:09:01,459 --> 01:08:56,870
acoustic speakers I didn't notice a

1626
01:09:03,950 --> 01:09:01,469
spectacular and from there then I slowly

1627
01:09:05,420 --> 01:09:03,960
came came back to Steve consciousness

1628
01:09:07,640 --> 01:09:05,430
but I went through like all these

1629
01:09:09,559 --> 01:09:07,650
different levels and I wrote about it in

1630
01:09:12,170 --> 01:09:09,569
my memoir and so that kind of got me

1631
01:09:14,990 --> 01:09:12,180
that was my first experience that there

1632
01:09:16,340 --> 01:09:15,000
are multi dimensions to our our reality

1633
01:09:18,800 --> 01:09:16,350
and many of them we didn't know even

1634
01:09:21,140 --> 01:09:18,810
existed or unless we read about them

1635
01:09:24,200 --> 01:09:21,150
unless somebody told us about something

1636
01:09:28,640 --> 01:09:24,210
like that so I kind of took that as a

1637
01:09:31,789 --> 01:09:28,650
foundation and I did some research again

1638
01:09:34,340 --> 01:09:31,799
and valid or not but I but in the Parana

1639
01:09:37,610 --> 01:09:34,350
k-- literature in the devi bhagwat on

1640
01:09:41,599 --> 01:09:37,620
for example that body of literature this

1641
01:09:45,650 --> 01:09:41,609
is the Nargis NER aka the many darkest

1642
01:09:49,729 --> 01:09:45,660
where human souls migrate to based upon

1643
01:09:53,689 --> 01:09:49,739
their actions and behavior and they

1644
01:09:56,150 --> 01:09:53,699
don't exist there and reside there for

1645
01:09:57,550 --> 01:09:56,160
eternity the way say Christian belief is

1646
01:09:59,560 --> 01:09:57,560
it's not such a thing

1647
01:10:04,440 --> 01:09:59,570
but while the Karma's being dissolved

1648
01:10:09,340 --> 01:10:04,450
they are experiencing some rough patches

1649
01:10:11,710 --> 01:10:09,350
notice Souls progress so I have two very

1650
01:10:14,620 --> 01:10:11,720
lucid descriptive chapters in the

1651
01:10:18,460 --> 01:10:14,630
srimad-bhagavatam about these artists

1652
01:10:20,890 --> 01:10:18,470
and what sense an individual - this one

1653
01:10:23,230 --> 01:10:20,900
versus that one like heinous crimes such

1654
01:10:27,040 --> 01:10:23,240
as cold-blooded murder versus something

1655
01:10:30,790 --> 01:10:27,050
else so whether they're allegories or a

1656
01:10:32,830 --> 01:10:30,800
symbolic take it anyway again I kind of

1657
01:10:35,980 --> 01:10:32,840
feel like okay I'm in fiction I want to

1658
01:10:37,600 --> 01:10:35,990
explore these things and I chose fiction

1659
01:10:39,970 --> 01:10:37,610
for this particular book because I

1660
01:10:42,670 --> 01:10:39,980
wanted to have a palette that gave me

1661
01:10:44,860 --> 01:10:42,680
freedom I didn't want to feel like okay

1662
01:10:48,460 --> 01:10:44,870
am I going to be pinned down so this is

1663
01:10:50,560 --> 01:10:48,470
Steve's belief now in my memoir that is

1664
01:10:52,900 --> 01:10:50,570
nonfiction so people could really take

1665
01:10:56,080 --> 01:10:52,910
me to task on my beliefs or my opinions

1666
01:10:58,780 --> 01:10:56,090
or my convictions you know in fiction

1667
01:11:00,070 --> 01:10:58,790
I'm free let's talk about that point

1668
01:11:01,750 --> 01:11:00,080
because I don't want people to get the

1669
01:11:05,350 --> 01:11:01,760
wrong impression this is a this is a

1670
01:11:06,880 --> 01:11:05,360
book of fiction and you're as you said

1671
01:11:08,650 --> 01:11:06,890
you're allowed to explore ideas

1672
01:11:10,690 --> 01:11:08,660
differently in the book of fiction I

1673
01:11:12,190 --> 01:11:10,700
think it also has this connection to

1674
01:11:14,680 --> 01:11:12,200
reality and some really important things

1675
01:11:16,330 --> 01:11:14,690
that you're talking about so in the time

1676
01:11:18,610 --> 01:11:16,340
that we have left recap for people a

1677
01:11:20,470 --> 01:11:18,620
little bit about this book where they

1678
01:11:22,780 --> 01:11:20,480
can find it the tale of the Himalayan

1679
01:11:24,220 --> 01:11:22,790
Yogi's and the prior book which we had

1680
01:11:26,560 --> 01:11:24,230
you am skeptical before and you talk to

1681
01:11:29,320 --> 01:11:26,570
you to a great job and people well

1682
01:11:31,900 --> 01:11:29,330
really I think enjoy this second book

1683
01:11:36,070 --> 01:11:31,910
with most stuff these days Amazon and

1684
01:11:39,160 --> 01:11:36,080
any online sellers online stores it's

1685
01:11:41,680 --> 01:11:39,170
available in both eBook and in hardcopy

1686
01:11:44,020 --> 01:11:41,690
in paperback it is the first book of a

1687
01:11:46,480 --> 01:11:44,030
trilogy and the second books these rough

1688
01:11:49,210 --> 01:11:46,490
draft is written I had to add a page in

1689
01:11:50,920 --> 01:11:49,220
the rough draft is there and - I'm not

1690
01:11:52,600 --> 01:11:50,930
saying I'm stalled because of my wife I

1691
01:11:55,210 --> 01:11:52,610
have to choose my editor and she's like

1692
01:11:58,060 --> 01:11:55,220
my love of my life I'm just sorting that

1693
01:12:00,250 --> 01:11:58,070
out I just want to put a plug for some

1694
01:12:03,160 --> 01:12:00,260
of the finest characters that I was able

1695
01:12:07,160 --> 01:12:03,170
to I thought that I work with in the

1696
01:12:09,020 --> 01:12:07,170
story where people from within in the

1697
01:12:12,020 --> 01:12:09,030
which was the harem and how they worked

1698
01:12:14,300 --> 01:12:12,030
behind the scenes to rectify a lot of

1699
01:12:16,910 --> 01:12:14,310
the wrongs that were going on in the

1700
01:12:20,780 --> 01:12:16,920
story these are not historically

1701
01:12:22,700 --> 01:12:20,790
accurate people but I did I read some of

1702
01:12:26,330 --> 01:12:22,710
the very best historical accounts of

1703
01:12:29,000 --> 01:12:26,340
mobile empire and drew actual characters

1704
01:12:31,340 --> 01:12:29,010
brothers of Emperor's and drew upon

1705
01:12:34,060 --> 01:12:31,350
those characters to to bring into the

1706
01:12:36,620 --> 01:12:34,070
story so there was as much authenticity

1707
01:12:38,210 --> 01:12:36,630
as I could and so he was a lot of fun to

1708
01:12:40,700 --> 01:12:38,220
do that because I it was a learning

1709
01:12:45,830 --> 01:12:40,710
experience but you're right that was

1710
01:12:48,440 --> 01:12:45,840
idea privilege I mean the Emperor was an

1711
01:12:51,710 --> 01:12:48,450
opium addict whole idea of privilege is

1712
01:12:54,830 --> 01:12:51,720
so counter to the idea of spirituality

1713
01:12:56,540 --> 01:12:54,840
that it's just offensive to me the idea

1714
01:12:57,560 --> 01:12:56,550
that any of us get through this thing

1715
01:13:00,530 --> 01:12:57,570
unscathed

1716
01:13:02,960 --> 01:13:00,540
the idea that any of us are kind of Etta

1717
01:13:04,970 --> 01:13:02,970
and an advantage in terms of what we

1718
01:13:07,220 --> 01:13:04,980
really have to accomplish spiritually is

1719
01:13:09,410 --> 01:13:07,230
a joke to anyone who sits down on a yoga

1720
01:13:11,750 --> 01:13:09,420
mat for five minutes and says I'm not

1721
01:13:13,400 --> 01:13:11,760
privileged I'm just as up

1722
01:13:15,260 --> 01:13:13,410
as anyone else and I'm very good

1723
01:13:17,240 --> 01:13:15,270
successor to the organization that I

1724
01:13:19,670 --> 01:13:17,250
have lists grew up with the t-yong

1725
01:13:21,860 --> 01:13:19,680
movement he came into the dome where

1726
01:13:23,570 --> 01:13:21,870
everybody for 2,000 people meditate for

1727
01:13:27,110 --> 01:13:23,580
the first time I wanted to hear the guy

1728
01:13:30,970 --> 01:13:27,120
talk and he's the guy he's that PhD from

1729
01:13:33,920 --> 01:13:30,980
Harvard and a MD from MIT or vice-versa

1730
01:13:37,130 --> 01:13:33,930
smart guy pretty good guys from Middle

1731
01:13:39,440 --> 01:13:37,140
East and he said we have to address the

1732
01:13:43,190 --> 01:13:39,450
issue of personality disorders I never

1733
01:13:47,330 --> 01:13:43,200
ever once heard of 50 years I've been in

1734
01:13:49,670 --> 01:13:47,340
our organization I hope our guest again

1735
01:13:51,500 --> 01:13:49,680
has been Steve Briggs and the book that

1736
01:13:52,940 --> 01:13:51,510
you're gonna want to check out and I do

1737
01:13:55,100 --> 01:13:52,950
hope you you will if you're at all

1738
01:13:57,020 --> 01:13:55,110
interested we talked about it the tale

1739
01:13:58,340 --> 01:13:57,030
of the Himalayan Yogi's and check out

1740
01:14:00,710 --> 01:13:58,350
his other book Steve it's been

1741
01:14:02,500 --> 01:14:00,720
absolutely terrific I'm we covered so

1742
01:14:05,390 --> 01:14:02,510
much ground and you're so open and

1743
01:14:07,670 --> 01:14:05,400
sincere travel around on the path it's a

1744
01:14:10,220 --> 01:14:07,680
joy to talk to you thank you thank you

1745
01:14:10,970 --> 01:14:10,230
and when you see been my best life he's

1746
01:14:12,680 --> 01:14:10,980
a good man

1747
01:14:14,240 --> 01:14:12,690
I had yet to meet them where we talked

1748
01:14:14,940 --> 01:14:14,250
on the phone four or five times and I

1749
01:14:16,470 --> 01:14:14,950
got

1750
01:14:17,730 --> 01:14:16,480
period love this trip to India meant

1751
01:14:18,330 --> 01:14:17,740
that could have a hand and help you come

1752
01:14:20,580 --> 01:14:18,340
out that

1753
01:14:22,380 --> 01:14:20,590
so hopefully you and I will meet one day

1754
01:14:24,810 --> 01:14:22,390
but until then we'll just keep talking

1755
01:14:32,430 --> 01:14:24,820
on the screen okay well you come back to

1756
01:14:36,270 --> 01:14:32,440
Del Mar anytime thank you thank you I am

1757
01:14:42,330 --> 01:14:36,280
privileged finest beaches and we just

1758
01:14:44,610 --> 01:14:42,340
love good for you yeah I know I think

1759
01:14:45,210 --> 01:14:44,620
everything happens by accident thanks

1760
01:14:49,380 --> 01:14:45,220
man

1761
01:14:51,390 --> 01:14:49,390
you're awesome good thanks again to

1762
01:14:53,880 --> 01:14:51,400
Steve Briggs for joining me today on

1763
01:14:56,010 --> 01:14:53,890
skeptical I've realized and editing this

1764
01:14:58,530 --> 01:14:56,020
that I talked a lot during this

1765
01:15:00,660 --> 01:14:58,540
interview people always accuse me that

1766
01:15:02,730 --> 01:15:00,670
anyway but especially this one but I

1767
01:15:06,150 --> 01:15:02,740
really felt like I needed to push Steve

1768
01:15:08,400 --> 01:15:06,160
on a couple of things because he is a TM

1769
01:15:11,010 --> 01:15:08,410
guy but I think that's also kind of a

1770
01:15:13,530 --> 01:15:11,020
follower kind of thing and I love the

1771
01:15:16,350 --> 01:15:13,540
Vedic yoga stuff but I think it has the

1772
01:15:20,310 --> 01:15:16,360
same problems with sage on the stage

1773
01:15:22,860 --> 01:15:20,320
kind of idealization and unchallenging

1774
01:15:24,960 --> 01:15:22,870
beliefs just because people say it so I

1775
01:15:26,760 --> 01:15:24,970
want to try and get to that next level

1776
01:15:28,560 --> 01:15:26,770
so I don't know if I dominated the

1777
01:15:31,470 --> 01:15:28,570
conversation too much or not but I'll

1778
01:15:34,650 --> 01:15:31,480
just take my chances on that and you can

1779
01:15:36,890 --> 01:15:34,660
tell me if you think I did and I will I

1780
01:15:39,390 --> 01:15:36,900
will take it under consideration

1781
01:15:42,840 --> 01:15:39,400
so the one question I tea up from this

1782
01:15:45,120 --> 01:15:42,850
interview is do you think there is a

1783
01:15:47,010 --> 01:15:45,130
moral imperative and I guess more

1784
01:15:50,000 --> 01:15:47,020
importantly do you think it makes sense

1785
01:15:54,900 --> 01:15:50,010
to try and tackle that from

1786
01:15:56,250 --> 01:15:54,910
pre-scientific but logical way so let me

1787
01:15:58,230 --> 01:15:56,260
know your thoughts pop over to the

1788
01:16:00,840 --> 01:15:58,240
skeptical forum and tell me or drop me

1789
01:16:03,570 --> 01:16:00,850
an email as always I love hearing and

1790
01:16:05,520 --> 01:16:03,580
interacting with you all so I do have

1791
01:16:08,220 --> 01:16:05,530
some great shows coming up stay with me

1792
01:16:11,320 --> 01:16:08,230
for all of that until next time take